Transcript [00:00] [music] [00:06] [music] [00:12] [music] [00:17] >> Welcome to Living Fearless. I'm your [00:19] host Hediye Mirahmadi on the Real Life [00:21] Network, and I'm super excited for our [00:22] guest today because this gentleman truly [00:25] knows the cost of both following Christ [00:28] and the hope that's found in the gospel. [00:30] Born and raised in Iran, Reverend Shah [00:32] Ahmadi spent the first 22 years of his [00:35] life under the Islamic Republic. And as [00:37] a young Muslim, he memorized the entire [00:40] Quran by the age of 13 and pursued a [00:42] successful career as an engineer before [00:45] his life took an unexpected turn. [00:48] After leaving Iran, Reverend Shah [00:50] encountered Jesus in a way that [00:51] transformed everything. Today, he's an [00:55] evangelist, a pastor, and he also serves [00:57] as the director of strategic alliances [01:00] for the Iran Alive Ministries. Iran [01:03] Alive supports the underground church in [01:05] Iran and equips churches around the [01:07] world to reach Muslims with the truth of [01:10] Christ. His ministry has taken him to [01:12] over 25 countries where he's spoken [01:15] about the underground church in Iran, [01:17] about religious persecution, about [01:18] evangelism, and the remarkable movement [01:21] of God taking place amongst Iranians. [01:24] You can follow and support his ministry [01:26] through the website Iran Alive.org. [01:29] Reverend Shah Ahmadi, welcome to the [01:31] show. [01:33] >> Thank you, Hediye, for having me here. [01:35] It's great honor [01:37] and the privilege to be here. [01:39] >> Well, I want every every story that of [01:42] an Iranian that comes to Christ is [01:44] unique and spectacular. So, please begin [01:46] with your story. Tell us about your [01:48] childhood in Iran. [01:50] >> Yeah, as many Iranian I raised in very [01:53] common in Muslim family. My dad took me [01:55] to mosque when I was aged eight. I start [01:58] following Islam, reading Quran, [02:00] memorizing scriptures. [02:03] I start going to mosque and fasting 40 [02:06] days [02:07] a year and in age 13 I used to stand [02:11] spend two three hour per day to [02:14] memorizing Quran. So I was very [02:15] committed. [02:16] >> And can you explain that? Can you Sorry [02:19] to interrupt you, but can you explain [02:20] the commitment and the time involved in [02:22] memorizing the Quran? It is not an easy [02:24] thing and I want people to really [02:26] understand the discipline that's [02:27] required to do that. [02:29] >> Yes, actually imagine as a student I [02:32] used to go to school and come back and [02:35] do my homework and I literally had just [02:38] two three hour left per day because of [02:40] the heavy studying. So my discipline was [02:43] so high. I used to spend two three hour [02:46] per day try to memorize. So in other [02:49] word if I'm saying for those they are [02:51] Christian, I was memorize whole gospel [02:54] of Matthew, Mark, John, book of Acts [02:58] from you know, verse one to the last [03:01] chapter. So that's took a lot of [03:03] practicing, writing, reading, reciting [03:07] and same time about practicing I used to [03:09] awake 6:00 before the sunrise to pray to [03:13] Allah five time a day and so all of that [03:17] took a heavy discipline and commitment [03:19] to following what Islam required. [03:22] >> And so your and your memorization is in [03:25] Arabic, am I correct? [03:26] >> That's right. [03:27] >> So did you understand what you were [03:28] reading? [03:30] >> Actually in the beginning no, because [03:32] our language in Iran is Farsi. So my I [03:35] start like a practicing and then when I [03:39] was growing in school for two years [03:42] compulsory they are teaching us Arabic. [03:44] So we start reading Arabic even we don't [03:48] understand the meaning. So I was [03:50] reciting without understand the meaning. [03:54] >> Wait, so you you learned the the [03:55] discipline of reciting the language, but [03:58] you don't know what the actual words [04:00] mean, correct? [04:01] >> Correct. [04:03] >> So, what did that What did that tell you [04:04] about God? Or What was that experience [04:06] like? Were you Was it helping you to [04:07] draw closer to who you understood God to [04:10] be at the time? Uh what was that like it [04:13] for you personally? [04:14] >> Not at all. I never had a personal [04:16] relationship with God. God was far away [04:19] from me and I was looking God as a [04:21] supreme leader sitting in the sky. If I [04:24] do good, he will reward me. If I do bad, [04:26] he will punish me. So, my drawing is [04:28] closer to God or reading Quran, that was [04:31] out of fear, not out of love for God. [04:33] So, I never felt I had relationship with [04:36] God. So, all about the fear [04:38] and I was trying to be right in the [04:40] sight of this God. [04:42] >> And so, were your parents very strict? [04:45] >> My dad was very strict Muslim. My mom, [04:49] not. [04:50] >> And so, but you grew up in Iran. I want [04:53] I want to hear more about what it was [04:54] like as a as a child growing up under [04:56] the Islamic Republic. So, um we're going [04:59] to have it a short intermission and ad [05:01] break and then we're going to come back [05:02] to hear the rest of Reverend Shaw's [05:04] story because every You've heard a [05:06] couple of [05:08] uh in [05:09] guests of ours that have been from Iran, [05:11] but Reverend Shaw has a unique [05:12] experience because he had a professional [05:15] career in Iran as well. So, stay tuned. [05:17] We'll be right back after this short [05:18] message. [05:27] Thank you for staying with us. We're [05:28] here with Reverend Shaw Ahmadi telling [05:30] about his story uh eventually leaving [05:33] Iran uh for the West. So, uh Reverend [05:36] Shaw, we stopped we left off where you [05:39] were talking about uh memorizing the [05:40] Quran, but then you you grow up, you're [05:43] a young man, and you go to school, you [05:44] get a degree in engineering, I believe. [05:47] What then was your professional career? [05:50] >> Yes, my professional career was survey [05:52] engineering. I used to work in [05:54] petrochemical oil factory in south of [05:56] Iran, city called Bushehr. So, I worked [05:59] there for 2 years and because a part of [06:01] my job used to go through the mountain [06:04] and different places to find the best [06:05] place for the petrochemical factories. [06:08] In one of the occasion, I come across [06:10] accidentally by my team for underground [06:13] missile city, which is that was a place [06:16] hidden place in between the all the [06:18] mountains. And instantly I noticed this [06:20] is unusual activity operation going on [06:23] there. But after that and through the [06:26] camera and other and I found a secret [06:28] police find out about our activity over [06:30] there. We find they find out we know the [06:32] map location, things like that. They [06:34] came [06:34] >> So, you weren't supposed to know about [06:36] that place. [06:36] >> Oh, no. That was secret and actually [06:39] that was a between the all the mountain [06:40] like dry places and the hidden. And so, [06:44] the things right now Israel or America [06:46] blowing up by God grace, we find out [06:49] around 23 years ago, 4 years ago. [06:54] >> Wow. And so, then what happened? So, the [06:55] secret police find out that you know, [06:57] when you're not supposed to know, and [06:59] then what happened? [07:00] >> So, they came, they took all the map and [07:02] everything computer. They tried to ask [07:05] us do we have any connection with [07:07] Israel, America, with the FBI, CIA and [07:10] they searched all my email, my phone, my [07:12] family background. They found out not, [07:14] you know, I don't have any connection [07:16] also, but they didn't believe. Iranian [07:18] government is so unsecure even they [07:20] don't believe their own children, you [07:21] know, they don't trust anybody. So, I [07:23] was integrating for two, three days and [07:27] but they were trying to find out, you [07:29] know, what's going on and search and [07:31] everything like that. There was old man [07:33] in my workplace and he was like a father [07:35] to me. He said, I see this kind of thing [07:38] happening during the years. Either [07:40] they're going to kill you by accident or [07:42] they're going to uh inject something you [07:45] can they can wipe away your memory. So, [07:48] I said, "What I should do? I'm just only [07:50] 21 years old." He said, "Just leave [07:52] Iran." Uh so, that was the one of the [07:54] hardest time in my life because my [07:56] earning was great. I had a great, you [07:58] know, um [07:59] money and the things like that. So, I I [08:01] had only [08:03] few hours to came to my dad and say, [08:05] "Dad, do you trust me?" He said, "Yes." [08:07] I said, "Anything government say, don't [08:09] please don't believe it." So, that was [08:11] my [08:11] >> a movie. [08:12] >> goodbye to my whole family. It was like [08:14] that. So, even I never had a time to say [08:16] goodbye to my sisters, to my mom. That [08:18] was a very hard time. So, I had to come [08:21] illegally outside Iran because if if I [08:23] want to come it legally, government [08:25] would arrest me. So, I had to cross the [08:27] mountain of the Turkey border and I had [08:31] to walk 14 hour on the snow with a, you [08:33] know, group of people. My feet was [08:35] frozen. I was I had a fear after they're [08:38] going to bring back to the country. [08:40] And so, as a young boy, I was just [08:43] crying and weeping and I was angry of [08:45] this God I served for [08:47] 20 years of being a strict Muslim, [08:50] memorizing, praying, everything. I [08:52] didn't see that God helping me at all [08:54] and not giving me peace at all. And I [08:56] was questioning, "Where are you? You're [08:58] not supposed to receive a peace in the [09:00] time of trouble." And so, yeah, that was [09:04] a little bit of glimpse of what happened [09:05] to me. [09:06] >> And so, then you're you you end up in [09:08] Turkey and then what happens? [09:10] >> Yeah, I ended up in Turkey and I was [09:12] just following the step of the refugee [09:14] that's coming to Europe. And in Turkey, [09:17] I was suffering nightmare and I [09:19] everything like that. I start drinking, [09:20] smoking, going partying because the God [09:23] of Islam didn't give me any hope, any [09:25] peace. I was getting worse and worse. I [09:28] was trying to replace with something [09:30] worldly. And [09:32] that didn't help me either. So, I came [09:34] to Greece, Italy, and ended up in [09:36] England. [09:37] >> In England. And so, how did you [09:41] did you meet the Lord in England? How [09:43] How did you finally meet the Lord? [09:46] >> Yes, and over there someone shared the [09:47] gospel with me for first time and it was [09:50] saying that did you know Jesus loves [09:51] you? You know, I said I never heard this [09:53] because by that time I felt sinner, I'm [09:56] partying, drinking, and all this kind of [09:58] sinful lifestyle and so like if the [10:00] Jesus was supposed to love me, that was [10:02] the way that I was doing a good because [10:04] in Islam if you do good, he loves you. [10:06] If you do bad, he hates you. So, that [10:08] unconditional love from Christ was [10:10] drawing me and also unconditional love [10:13] from Christian drawing me to the church [10:15] and which is after 6 months of fighting, [10:18] I went to church and during the church [10:20] service first I was laughing at [10:21] Christianity, didn't believe what they [10:23] saying. But during the worship I saw the [10:25] sentence said Jesus is prince of peace. [10:28] So, when I asked, "Would you give me [10:30] that peace?" presence of God came and [10:32] the water from heaven I experienced in [10:34] my head. That time was the first [10:36] encounter with the Holy Spirit and the [10:38] beginning of my journey with Jesus. [10:42] >> I feel like I feel like Muslims always [10:44] have a supernatural experience when they [10:46] come to the Lord. And so, yours was this [10:48] feeling of water coming over you when [10:50] you felt the Holy Spirit? [10:52] >> That's right. [10:53] >> I love that. So, I want to hear more [10:54] about this journey. So, we're going to [10:56] take a short ad break and we'll be right [10:57] back after this message. Stay with us. [11:04] Welcome back to the show. If you're just [11:06] joining us, we're here with Reverend [11:07] Shaw Ahmadi telling us about his young [11:10] life in Iran and his career as an [11:13] engineer and then suddenly he discovers [11:16] a secret military facility and has to [11:18] flee for his life. Has a harrowing [11:21] journey across over to Turkey and then [11:23] coming over to Europe landing in England [11:26] eventually and then meeting the Lord [11:28] Jesus Christ with a miraculous encounter [11:30] of the Holy Spirit. So, welcome back to [11:32] the show, Reverend Shaw, and please [11:34] continue. So, you have this wonderful [11:36] experience. People have been sharing the [11:38] gospel. You go to church. How did you [11:41] then proceed in your life? How did you [11:43] come to the experience of knowing that [11:45] Jesus Christ is the Messiah and your [11:46] savior? [11:48] >> Amen. So, for first time when I was in [11:51] the church, I was surprised because I [11:53] was seeing a lot of difference between [11:55] Christianity and Islam. Even I was [11:56] Muslim by that time and at 10 because I [11:59] saw the joy and the peace inside [12:01] everybody had a joyful, amazing [12:04] relationship with God which I never had [12:06] for 21 years of being a very committed, [12:09] very strict Muslim. So, the observation [12:12] took me to inside about during the [12:14] worship. Even the during the first few [12:16] worship, I was laughing, didn't believe, [12:18] I had a lot of doubt. But suddenly when [12:20] I asked that God of peace, give me peace [12:23] because I never had peace in Islam. I [12:25] never had peace when I was reading [12:27] Quran. I never had a peace when I was [12:29] trying to pleasing God of Islam. Plus, I [12:32] never felt peace when I was drinking, [12:34] smoking, partying. [12:36] So, immediately for first time, I was [12:39] experiencing peace when I asked God of [12:42] Christianity, would you give me that [12:43] peace? Which is in the scripture say [12:45] that Jesus is prince of peace. So, first [12:48] experience I had, I felt the water is [12:50] dropping on my head. And as a engineer [12:53] background, I was trying to figure out [12:55] how that possible. I'm literally feeling [12:58] the shower of the water is dropping all [13:00] over my body and I feeling peace and I [13:04] never experienced with God of Islam [13:05] because I was trying to knock the God of [13:07] Islam, talk to God of Islam for years in [13:10] in expectation maybe he would answer me. [13:12] But this one, Jesus Christ just answered [13:15] me instantly for first time in return [13:17] and plus I was nothing good position. I [13:20] was a sinner in there. I was, you know, [13:22] what I wasn't holy person. So, this I I [13:25] was scared and I was [13:27] I make sure that wasn't emotional. That [13:29] was real things experience that I'm [13:30] experiencing and I asked God, would you [13:32] give me another sign? [13:34] >> Ah. [13:35] >> Would you show me again if that's real? [13:37] So, this time the presence of God came [13:39] on me like fire. And from top of my head [13:42] to all over my body, I experienced a [13:44] warm peace of God and presence of Holy [13:47] Spirit was so strong. I start crying, [13:51] shaking. I was on my knee and was [13:53] telling Jesus Christ, if you don't leave [13:55] me, I will serve you all of my days. And [13:59] during that service, I heard the first [14:01] time audible voice of God. Matthew 6:33. [14:05] If you seek my kingdom and my [14:08] righteousness, all you need will be [14:10] added. So, that night I received a [14:12] Bible. I went to home. I had a best [14:14] sleep ever. For 1 years and a half, I [14:17] had a nightmare. I had to drink to go to [14:20] sleep. I never had a peaceful sleep. So, [14:23] the first encounter with Holy Spirit [14:25] changed my physical, my emotional. But [14:28] then I start reading Quran and comparing [14:30] with Bible because in Iran, I was forced [14:34] to become a Muslim. Not by forcing in [14:36] that way, but in Iran, we didn't have [14:38] any other choice. [14:39] >> Right. [14:39] >> So, I want to make sure [14:41] the reading the Bible, [14:43] understand the scripture and comparing [14:45] with Quran because everybody was telling [14:48] all the religion is the same and they [14:49] were saying, okay, let's me read. I [14:51] start reading and I found out more than [14:53] 100 different. Especially I was [14:55] memorized Quran. Now, I had a Bible in [14:57] my hand for first time. And I more I [15:00] read the Bible, more I fell in love with [15:01] the person of Christ. And I find out [15:03] that's the biggest lie, all the religion [15:06] is the same because one of them is [15:07] darkness, one of them is light. Jesus [15:09] talking about love your enemy. Islam is [15:12] talking about kill your enemy. Jesus [15:15] talking about the one wife and one [15:17] husband. In Quran, say the one husband [15:19] can have a four wife. Jesus talking [15:22] about what you eating drinking that [15:23] makes you unclean. Quran says about if [15:25] you eat the pork or the drink the wine [15:27] you become unclean. One of them is [15:29] salvation based on your work. You are [15:31] the savior. But another one in [15:33] Christianity, Jesus the savior who died [15:35] on the cross. He rose after 3 days. So [15:38] more I read the Bible, more I fell in [15:40] love with the person of Christ. And [15:42] after 8 months of reading the Bible, [15:45] I had a some question about Trinity. I [15:47] asked my teacher, "Would you help me?" [15:49] My teacher said, "This is not [15:50] information. This is revelation. Go ask [15:53] God." So I I come to home. I said, "God, [15:55] I'm a very simple person. Would you [15:57] reveal to me who you are as a Father, [15:59] Son, Holy Spirit? Because I know I'm a [16:01] sinner and I know there's no other [16:03] person who died at the cross or died [16:06] anyway for my sin. But I need your help [16:09] regarding of the Trinity." And 2 weeks [16:11] later I had a dream. I was asleep. I saw [16:14] I was dead. They want to take me to to [16:18] the cemetery in inside my coffin. And I [16:21] heard the voice, "You were dead. Now you [16:23] are alive." I saw the door open. The [16:25] cross full of light and fire came, [16:28] raised me inside coffin, gave me life. [16:32] And it pushed me inside the house to [16:33] outside the house, pushed me inside the [16:35] church. So [16:37] and then I was reading the morning [16:40] after. [16:41] >> And that was revelation. And for you the [16:43] dream was a revelation of the Trinity. [16:46] of God. [16:46] >> Exactly. And that was clear. I mean like [16:48] all my question is gone by that dream. [16:50] All my question is gone. Plus I was [16:53] reading the after my devotional, Jesus [16:55] was talking about cost of following him. [16:58] The you know, [16:59] Jesus was inviting whomever want to [17:01] follow him, he should take his cross. So [17:03] I found that what is the meaning of [17:05] that. [17:06] And which is taking us for our next [17:08] question about not just only giving our [17:10] life, but also we have to take the cross [17:13] following him. [17:14] >> that's what I was going to ask you [17:16] because of course as someone who's come [17:17] out of Islam, we pay a heavy cost. You [17:20] lose family relationships, uh sense of [17:23] community. So, how is that What was that [17:25] like for you when you eventually told [17:27] your family? What was the cost to [17:28] leaving Islam and following Jesus? [17:30] >> Yeah, first all of my friend uh left me [17:33] in England. All of them they were [17:34] drinking, smoking, going to partying. [17:36] They said, "You lost your mind. You [17:38] become religious." I said, "My goodness, [17:40] how I can explain to you this real [17:41] experience." [17:42] Second one was my family. When I called [17:45] my dad, my dad said, "I couldn't believe [17:47] what what you are saying because I [17:49] raised you as a like a best of best. In [17:53] a school, everybody was cheering up. In [17:55] a school, you were reading Quran for 500 [17:58] student every day for 10 years. How that [18:01] would be changed you become a Christian? [18:03] That that you bring [18:05] >> Glory to God, right? That's just [18:08] miraculous. [18:09] >> It was a miraculous change and my my dad [18:12] was thinking about I'm bringing shame in [18:14] his [18:15] >> Mhm. [18:15] >> name and his family. So, my dad didn't [18:17] talk to me for two, three years and he [18:19] said, "Only condition I will talk to you [18:21] if you go back to mosque." So, anytime I [18:23] was trying to honor him to call like [18:25] every two months, three months, he was [18:27] saying, "Are you on the way to mosque?" [18:29] I said, "Dad, actually I am inside the [18:30] church." So, I said, "I'm praying. You [18:33] will know the truth and truth will set [18:35] you free." So, there was a lot of [18:37] persecution happened from my family [18:39] emotionally. And government find out [18:42] that I am [18:43] uh Christian. I was speaking to them [18:45] through the line phone line and they [18:47] came to integrate my sister. They [18:50] harassed them and they said, "If you [18:52] listen to him and his story, if you guys [18:54] convert, we will arrest you." So, they [18:58] threatened in many different ways. But, [18:59] as Bible says, [19:01] >> wait, let me Let me explain this to [19:02] people. So, you're living in England, [19:04] your family's in Iran, they were [19:06] listening in on your phone calls, and [19:08] basically went back to threaten and [19:10] interrogate your family that if they [19:11] were to follow Christ because of you, [19:14] they would suffer severe punishment. [19:17] >> Definitely. Exactly. They were keep [19:19] doing that. And by God's grace, 4 years [19:23] later, my sister came to Christ. And she [19:26] was watching Iran Alive Ministry. And [19:28] so, she heard the gospel from Dr. [19:30] Hormoz. And she came to Christ. I was [19:33] praying, trying to do whatever I can do [19:35] for their salvation. Few days days a few [19:38] a years later, another sister came to [19:40] Christ. Another sister, I have five [19:42] sister and one brother. [19:44] And they had an encounter with Jesus [19:46] in through in the his her dream. She [19:49] came to Christ. And eight years later, [19:53] we were gathering in Turkey. I wasn't [19:55] able to go back to Iran because of [19:56] security issue. So, I brought my family [19:59] from Iran to Turkey. And I was meeting [20:01] them there. And a friend of mine from [20:04] America event who lost her son because [20:07] of the car accident. And he was sharing [20:10] the testimony of his salvation. And [20:13] he had to forgive that drunk driver. And [20:16] my dad was listening and about the [20:18] father, son, and me being away. And he [20:21] shared the gospel. He said, "I forgave [20:23] that drunk a driver because Jesus [20:26] forgave my sin." [20:28] And my father was listening to his [20:30] story. And then he said, "Do you know [20:32] this is available for everyone if you [20:34] guys want to receive Christ?" [20:36] By Lord mercy, my father gave his life [20:39] to Jesus. And in that trip, Hedieh, I [20:41] was able to baptize 11 people from my [20:44] family. My dad, my mom, my cousin. [20:47] >> And I was baptizing my father. I was [20:50] telling, "You will know the truth, and [20:51] truth will set you free, daddy." So, [20:54] uh persecution will happen, but we need [20:57] to endure. We need to continue praying. [20:59] And we need to stand firm and carry the [21:01] cross because Jesus is worthy of the [21:03] all. [21:04] >> Oh, I just I I pray every day for my [21:07] family to come to know the Lord. So, you [21:09] that is such a blessing to hear so many [21:11] of your family members came to the Lord. [21:14] I want to hear all about the Iran Alive [21:16] ministry. So, did the So, you're Were [21:19] you working with Iran Alive by time your [21:21] sister [21:22] sees them on TV or were you not in a [21:24] relationship yet with them? [21:26] >> No, no, no. I was in England. I I was [21:29] leading a church in England and uh so [21:32] traveling I had my own ministry and uh I [21:35] joined Iran Alive ministry 3 years ago [21:38] and that was a another divine connection [21:41] and divine calling from the Lord to move [21:43] to America from England. I lived in [21:45] England and served all around Europe, [21:48] Turkey, Middle East for 17 years, but [21:50] that was a new chapter for me to move to [21:52] work with Iran Alive ministry. [21:54] >> And I want to hear a little bit about [21:55] the experience in England because you [21:58] had a lot of experience with Islam and [21:59] encountering that. So, let's talk about [22:01] that when we get back. We'll be right [22:02] back after this short message. Stay with [22:04] us. [22:09] Welcome back to Living Fearless. I'm [22:10] your host Hedy Amirshadi and we're here [22:12] with Reverend Shaw and he's going to [22:14] tell us a little bit about his [22:15] experience while living in the UK. So, [22:18] he has found the Lord Jesus Christ. He's [22:21] pastoring a church and Reverend Shaw, [22:23] tell us a little bit about that [22:24] experience. You saw [22:27] Muslims coming to Christ, but you also [22:29] saw the rise of Islam in Europe. So, [22:33] tell us about both those experiences. [22:35] >> So, I was seeing both of the experience [22:37] in the same time was very uniquely. I [22:40] was seeing spiritual warfare in the [22:43] lands plus what is Islam is planning. [22:47] And uh high immigration. I was seeing [22:50] that all of the planned Islamic groups [22:52] they have. [22:54] And uh since I was there from 2007 till [22:57] I moved here in 2022, [23:00] I saw how they planned become a mayor, [23:04] education system, and all other [23:07] different places. By that time I was [23:09] there, England had just only one Muslim [23:12] mayor. [23:13] And but right now is over 12 major city [23:16] like London, Birmingham, Manchester, [23:19] Brighton, Rochdale, Leeds, Birmingham. [23:22] All of them planned and they are just [23:24] only 6-7 million people over there, but [23:27] that's the strategy plan to show being a [23:30] Muslim mayor is a problem. No, but when [23:32] they try to apply Sharia law in the land [23:35] of the Christianity to gain access [23:38] through that power to bring that Islamic [23:43] um [23:44] Sharia law to apply all over the [23:47] uh UK. That is the wrong which we saw [23:49] what happened. Right now, the head of [23:51] the [23:53] uh education in England is a Muslim, [23:56] very radical Muslim, and they're [23:57] bringing Quran teaching, hijab there, [23:59] and the people they convert in without [24:02] understanding anything about Islam. They [24:04] tell Islam is the religion of peace, all [24:06] of that, and people they are deceiving. [24:08] And other side we saw Iranian [24:11] >> Wait. Wait. Wait. Before you get to the [24:12] other side, what was the What was the [24:13] response when you would talk about it [24:15] with other church members or other [24:16] pastors? What was their response to your [24:18] concern? [24:19] >> It is today that was the one of the most [24:21] heartbreaking experience I ever had. [24:24] Ignorant. Ignorance. Ignorance. I was [24:27] telling to them we experienced in inside [24:29] Iran in 1979 Islamic group came on [24:32] power. They came in minority. Right now, [24:36] they not just only destroying Iran, [24:38] destroying the Middle East. They [24:40] bringing the everything is bad to the [24:43] whole region. And I was keep telling to [24:46] them, you know, you guys thinking this [24:47] is the just the water. The water is [24:49] good, but this is flood. So, don't mix [24:53] the Muslim with Islam. Islam is the [24:55] dangerous ideology. That's the political [24:58] system. They try to rob the country. [25:01] They try to access in every area to use [25:04] that access. So, I was telling to them [25:06] that they using [25:09] at your your [25:11] democracy as a door, not as a goal. You [25:14] guys thinking they are using this as a, [25:17] you know, goal. No, no, no. That's that [25:19] freedom of a speech. Whatever you think, [25:20] you will be persecuted in few years. [25:23] >> And And they just thought that you were [25:24] paranoid or they [25:26] >> They They said, "Well, you come from [25:27] Islamic country. You are paranoid." And [25:29] as I said, "Look, I am a believer. I'm [25:31] full of joy. I see the transformation [25:34] Lord laid in my life, but I see the [25:37] ignorance. You guys don't see what we [25:39] experience. I'm trying to pass a wisdom. [25:41] I'm trying to say to you guys, go." And [25:44] he was telling, "What is your solution?" [25:46] I said, "Okay, one, be in the position [25:49] you need to be as a God called the world [25:51] view. Why you guys not, you know, going [25:53] as a, you know, the main Why you guys [25:55] not doing an education system? Why [25:57] Christian is so passive? So, number two, [26:00] share the gospel. Gospel is the power of [26:03] God into salvation." I haven't seen any [26:05] British churches do any evangelism, [26:07] outreach, and others. And [26:09] others I was seeing a Muslim they are [26:11] sharing. They are bringing, you know, [26:15] And then the when the preacher was [26:17] preaching the gospel in outside in UK, [26:20] police was arresting, but they didn't do [26:21] anything with the Muslim preacher. So, [26:24] then I was telling to pastor and [26:25] leaders, "Why you not doing any protest? [26:27] Why you not writing anything regarding [26:29] after you have a right, same right as a [26:31] Muslim they have?" So, but all their [26:33] reaction was, "You know, we don't do [26:35] anything. We have what we need to do [26:38] with our groups and with the with our [26:40] churches." And unfortunately, right now [26:43] the city has had a one mosque. Right now [26:45] had a 20 mosques. They have over 400 [26:47] Sharia court. They have a more than 2, [26:49] 3,000 mosques. But the most [26:52] heartbreaking part, they buy in a [26:54] church, the same church they used to [26:56] worship Jesus, turning to mosque, and [26:58] they are laughing at Christian at their [27:00] face. [27:01] >> I I've experienced that myself, [27:03] absolutely. And so, [27:06] despite all of this, you know, [27:07] heartbreaking experience, you did see [27:10] people coming to the Lord on the other [27:12] side, correct? [27:13] >> Yes. There was an amazing opportunity [27:16] between Iranian. I don't know what how [27:18] God is changing Iranian people's [27:20] >> Amen. [27:20] >> by his mercy, as you know, inside Iran, [27:23] church grow from 500 to over 3 million [27:27] Christian. Underground church of Iran is [27:30] fastest growing church in the world. One [27:32] of them is because they seen Islam, they [27:34] experience them firsthand. They seen the [27:37] fruit of Islam is a lie, is destruction, [27:40] and terrorism, killing, all of that. So, [27:43] those Iranian, they left Iran because of [27:45] the whatever Iranian government did to [27:47] them, they came to UK. We had amazing [27:50] opportunity to share the love of Christ [27:52] with them, because many of them they [27:53] were telling, [27:54] "Are you stupid? You experiencing that [27:56] religion, you come become another, you [27:58] know, you choose another religion." And [28:00] I was telling, "No, no, no. Christianity [28:02] is not a the [28:03] >> response is that why would you leave [28:05] religion for another religion? It's [28:06] like, "No, it's not a religion. That's [28:08] not what I'm leaving for." [28:10] >> Absolutely. We're saying like a [28:12] Christianity is another religion. [28:14] Christianity is the relationship with [28:17] God. It's not the another religion as [28:19] you experience in Islam. And I was [28:21] telling to them, "One of them, you have [28:23] to work your way to God. Another one, [28:26] Jesus came to find you, to wash your [28:28] sin, to clean you, to have a [28:30] relationship with the daddy, to hear his [28:33] voice, which you never had." I was [28:35] asking Muslim, "Have you heard his [28:37] voice?" No. "Have you felt anybody paid [28:39] for you Christ?" No. "Have you heard [28:41] about someone would take care of your, [28:43] you know, as Bible says, he count every [28:45] hair of your head." And many things like [28:48] that. Jesus was saying, "Are you weary? [28:49] Are you tired? Come to him." as Jesus [28:51] said. "All you're weary, I will give you [28:54] rest, peace." I was talking all of that. [28:56] And plus, they were coming to church. [28:58] They were seeing a love between [29:00] Christian. They were experiencing [29:01] presence of God. And the same experience [29:04] we had. And by God's grace, we are in [29:06] our team in in UK, in Liverpool, we saw [29:09] more than 1,000 Iranian Muslim came to [29:11] Christ. We baptized more than 700 [29:14] Christian. Many Many people, many [29:17] American pastors, leaders were seeing [29:19] what God is doing over there. So, is the [29:21] spiritual warfare in Europe right now? [29:24] And there's a great attack of enemy. And [29:27] I believe one of them because of the [29:29] church is asleep. One of the reason is [29:31] that we are the one open the door. We [29:33] are the one we are not caring about our [29:35] responsibility because gospel is the [29:38] power of God because devil is defeated [29:40] at the feet of Christ. We know Jesus is [29:43] alive. Muhammad is that we know Jesus [29:45] have all the authority. So, I don't want [29:48] to glorify any demonic power, but also I [29:51] don't want to ignore our responsibility [29:53] because Jesus gave us the responsibility [29:56] and honor to do whatever we need to [29:58] call. [29:58] >> It's so true. So, then you take us to [30:00] your calling. You come to the United [30:02] States. Was it for Iran Alive [30:04] Ministries? Is that what brought you [30:05] here to the States? [30:07] >> That's right. I had a invitation from [30:09] Dr. Hormoz Shariat and the founder of [30:12] Iran Alive Ministries called the Billy [30:14] Graham of Iran. I met him several time [30:16] in Europe in different leadership [30:18] conference and seminars. He offered me a [30:20] job. [30:21] >> Wonderful human being. [30:22] >> So, we felt it's right time. Me and my [30:24] wife, we moved to Dallas, Texas, America [30:28] to start working with Iran Alive [30:29] Ministry. [30:30] >> And it seems like you're encountering [30:31] the same thing over here, right? [30:34] About the onslaught of Islam, especially [30:36] in Texas. [30:37] >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I I [30:40] I did a research recently. I found that [30:43] 48 mosques planned in last 24 months in [30:47] DFW and I couldn't believe in my [30:50] doorstep literally. The time I moved [30:53] here [30:54] >> 48 mosques in 24 months. [30:57] >> That's right. And in DFW, I'm not [30:59] talking in a whole America. I'm talking [31:00] about DFW in Dallas Fort Worth area. So [31:04] they plan in Epic City. They plan in the [31:06] mosque in Richardson and all over there. [31:08] So this is serious call for those [31:10] listening to continue praying and do [31:12] whatever you guys talking in this shows [31:15] to bringing awareness to understand and [31:17] educating also helping them whatever we [31:20] need to do because this is not the joke. [31:22] This is the similar situation I had the [31:24] I was seen in UK 20 years ago. I was [31:26] telling [31:26] >> Right. [31:27] >> and I'm keep telling to people here [31:28] pastors and leaders, you are 20 years [31:31] ahead of England. So please use the [31:34] experience. Please apply whatever you [31:36] need to apply and to stop this movement. [31:40] >> Yeah, it's it's but it's not an easy [31:42] problem to solve, you know, it's a we [31:44] cherish our religious freedom in this [31:46] country and Islam has a religion buried [31:49] inside a political conquest doctrine. [31:52] And so separating the two is I think one [31:55] of the greatest challenges we'll face as [31:57] American and Western countries around [31:59] the world will face in this century. So [32:02] I know you're I know Iran Alive in [32:04] particular, you've done amazing work. [32:06] I've heard the testimonies myself of [32:08] people coming to Christ. You've had the [32:09] experience with your family uh with the [32:12] underground church in Iran and helping [32:13] those believers, but you also recently [32:17] uh created a movie to talk about exactly [32:19] what we're just talking about about the [32:21] rise of Islam in the West and in the [32:23] United States. So the name of the movie [32:26] is The Great American Conflict, correct? [32:28] And it's already been publicly released? [32:30] >> That's right. Yeah, we cast it and now [32:33] people they can scan and they freely [32:35] they can watch and we made available [32:37] because we felt for American churches [32:39] for century they loved us they send the [32:42] treasure missionary to our countries and [32:45] right now this is our privilege to pay [32:48] back to America to give back to America. [32:51] We feel we are responsible as a [32:53] missionary in this nation is great [32:54] nation to bring awakening in different [32:57] ways understand the ways of enemy but [32:59] also the power of the gospel. So this [33:01] movie is all about the way enemy try to [33:04] insert to our land. [33:06] >> So we'll be right back and we're going [33:08] to talk a little bit more about the [33:09] themes of the movie. Stay with us. [33:15] Welcome back to the show. Reverend Shaw [33:16] was just telling us about the new movie [33:19] produced by Iran Alive Ministries called [33:21] The Great American Conflict and you were [33:23] saying it's widely available it's [33:25] available for free but can you talk to [33:27] us about some of the themes of the [33:29] movie? [33:31] >> Yes, actually the heart beyond the movie [33:33] was we tried to give our experience [33:36] about the what is Sharia law [33:38] and what is Islam and all of these for [33:40] because many churches and many Christian [33:42] they were asking what is different you [33:44] know what's different about Muslim [33:46] what's different about Islam what's [33:47] different about the Sharia law and we [33:49] were trying to break down each things [33:52] and it was also was trying to as we [33:55] mentioned try to [33:56] share the experience of seeing how UK [33:59] and Europe become a Muslim population [34:02] and how Islam is spreading what is the [34:04] agenda and all of that. So this movie [34:06] literally we interviewed and those [34:10] people from Muslim background first hand [34:12] experience in the harm of the Sharia law [34:15] in their nation in their country in [34:18] their personal life. So we are talking [34:20] about the what is Sharia law [34:22] what is Islam agenda is what is Islam [34:25] agenda in Europe UK and in America is [34:28] what we should do as a church leaders [34:31] plus we were sharing about our [34:33] testimonies. [34:34] So, this movie is this documentary [34:37] sharing the real people about the life [34:40] experience how Jesus changed their life. [34:42] Plus, my experience how Jesus changed me [34:46] from radical Muslim to radical loving [34:49] Christ. [34:50] >> Well, and in that in that in that story, [34:53] what are you hoping people take away? [34:54] So, it's kind of two very different [34:58] messages, right? So, there's this [35:00] there's this warning about being as wise [35:03] as serpents, right? And and yet there's [35:05] this hope. So, what are you hoping that [35:08] people take away from watching the [35:10] movie? [35:11] >> My hope is people to be awake. And I [35:14] love the Mark review what he said. He [35:15] said that the rain is not bad, but flood [35:18] is dangerous. So, we shouldn't be mixed [35:21] flood with the rain. We should [35:23] understand each things in places. You [35:25] know, I can love the Muslim, but also I [35:28] can disagree with the theology of Islam. [35:31] I should be aware of what happening in [35:33] my nation. I My hope in Iran I hope is [35:36] people would understand what happened in [35:38] UK could happen in America. My hope is [35:41] Christian could vote. My hope is [35:43] understand the responsibility as a [35:46] sharing the gospel. My hope is they [35:48] understand when they are selling the [35:50] land of thousand acre to Muslim they try [35:53] to become, you know, one community, the [35:55] culture. They understand what that place [35:57] going to look like in few years, like a [36:00] Michigan, like a Dearborn. So, all of [36:02] that we try to give them understanding [36:05] and education, but same time we want to [36:08] tell to Muslim to to Christian share the [36:11] gospel. The gospel is the answer. You [36:14] know, we need to publicly go and we are [36:17] not ashamed of the gospel as Paul said. [36:19] And one of the things I found out is [36:21] many American churches burned by fear. [36:25] And that is the biggest lie. They see in [36:27] Islam is like a Goliath, but mean they [36:29] made it this big and I'm not telling [36:31] that's the small spiritual warfare, but [36:33] because they are not using the power God [36:36] given us. We are not operating the area [36:39] we need to operate and I'm we our hope [36:41] is [36:43] as a Christian we can shine in society [36:46] as a president, as a mayor, as [36:48] educational system, as a lawyer and all [36:51] of that plus we should understand if [36:54] they are here, if we not share the [36:56] gospel with them [36:58] if we not pray for the salvation of [37:00] those Muslim, we are letting them to go [37:03] and be a vessel in the hand of enemy. So [37:06] my hope is what the experience in [37:08] England so many thousand people came to [37:10] Christ and we failed. As Iran Live, we [37:12] need to help equip the church to share [37:15] the love of God and we have this calling [37:18] and this mission literally in Iran Live. [37:20] We give the churches free advice to go [37:23] to the churches, myself, Dr. Hormoz, [37:26] many other leaders to do a screening [37:29] this document for free. Also we have a [37:31] curriculum how to evangelize to Muslim, [37:34] how to evangelize cross-culturally with [37:36] love of God so we can do both [37:38] politically and spiritually. We need to [37:41] awaken, we need to understand, we need [37:43] to close door for enemy, also we need to [37:45] share the love of God with those people. [37:48] >> And that's super important and it's [37:49] difficult. It's a difficult balance shot [37:51] to have, you know, this [37:54] strategy against Islam as a political [37:57] ideology and yet have a heart for [37:59] Muslims and people tell me all the time [38:01] the fear of Islam makes them despise [38:04] Muslims and I said that, you know, [38:05] that's that's not what God's expecting [38:07] from us. We can't despise our fellow [38:09] citizens who are made in the image of [38:11] God and I I always show a picture of [38:13] myself in a hijab in at Hajj to just [38:17] show people like I am that girl. I am [38:19] that same lady right [laughter] there, [38:22] you know, just trying to help them [38:23] understand that there we have to be able [38:26] to do both. And I want to talk a little [38:28] bit more in our next segment about what [38:31] advice in particular, cuz there's so [38:33] many ways to evangelize. So, I want to [38:35] hear your particular advice on how to [38:38] evangelize to Muslims. And we'll be [38:40] right back after this message. Don't go [38:42] away. [38:49] Thank you for staying with us. I'm [38:50] Hediye Tilahun [38:51] on the Real Life Network. And we have [38:53] with us today Reverend Shah Ahmadi [38:55] telling us this wonderful story of how [38:57] he came to the Lord and working with [38:59] Iran Alive Ministries creating this [39:02] amazing movie called The Great American [39:04] Conflict. Please be sure to check it [39:05] out. You can find it on their website [39:07] IranAlive.org. [39:09] And I just wanted to ask you, Shah, what [39:12] are There's so many ways to evangelize [39:14] and witness to Muslims. What have you [39:16] found are some of the most effective [39:18] ways? Cuz you're actually, you know, [39:20] changing hearts and minds and bringing [39:21] people to the Lord. What do you think [39:24] are some of the most effective ways? [39:26] >> Yes, thank you so much, Hediye, again [39:28] for inviting me for this great [39:30] conversation. Actually, when I was [39:32] trying to share the gospel with the Arab [39:35] people for first time in England, [39:37] uh [39:38] sharing the gospel with the Iranian that [39:40] was easy. And then I found that there's [39:41] some blockage in my heart. [39:44] Because, as you know, Arab conquered [39:46] Iran in 7th century. Iranian they were [39:49] not Muslim and they came you know, they [39:50] came with sword and all of that. So, [39:53] when I become a Christian, I was seeing [39:55] some Arab people and all the memory was [39:57] raising up. So, I couldn't share the [39:59] gospel. [40:00] I took the Lord and the Lord was telling [40:02] us search your heart. And leads me to do [40:05] some deep work because everything begin [40:07] within that. Everything begin before [40:10] your heart, you before your lips start [40:12] sharing the love of God or preaching the [40:14] gospel in every practical. We need to [40:17] wash our heart. And so, my advice is [40:19] that [40:20] >> if you see any Muslim and you can't [40:22] love, just go back to that that secret [40:25] place with the Lord. Just, "Lord, [40:27] whatever's happened in my heart during [40:28] the war bad, you know, history and [40:30] everything, because they are created in [40:32] your image." I can be disagree with [40:35] Islam, but I cannot not love the Muslim, [40:38] because first John says, "Whomever not [40:41] walking in love, they walk in darkness." [40:43] We don't want to be defeated them first [40:45] hand. And if you are hating or we don't [40:48] like them or we don't love them, we [40:50] already defeated in our heart. So, [40:52] defeated heart cannot share the [40:55] victorious gospel. [40:57] Second one, in second Timothy, Paul [41:01] said, "God has not given us a spirit of [41:03] fear, but a spirit of love, sound mind, [41:05] and power." We need to, you know, see [41:08] them what the cross did. When you see a [41:11] Muslim, you have two choice. Either on [41:14] their forehead, just see the past, what [41:17] happened, or either they see the cross [41:19] and Jesus Christ died for them. So, that [41:23] was a challenge for me. When I see any [41:25] Arab or any Muslim, I say, "Oh, Jesus, [41:27] help me to not just look their past, but [41:29] help me to look what you did at the [41:31] cross, because I need to conquer [41:33] darkness with the light. I need to go [41:35] with the love of the unconditional from [41:37] heaven." So, as God has not given us a [41:40] spirit of fear, a spirit of love. The [41:42] love conquer the fear. Number two, sound [41:44] mind. We need to change our mind. I as I [41:47] said, you know, you can disagree with [41:50] the whatever God then I sorry, God of [41:52] this age, the devil the true Muslim, but [41:55] also understand what God of is you know, [41:58] Christianity did for them. And me, you, [42:00] many of Muslim, they come to Christ [42:02] because someone shared the love of God. [42:04] And [42:05] >> It's beautiful. [42:06] >> Most importantly, build a relationship [42:08] with them. They are human. They are you [42:11] know, they believed the lie of the [42:14] devil. When they get alone in the [42:16] community they build the same minded [42:18] people and we are called to share the [42:20] love of God. Hediyeh, Iran wasn't a [42:23] Christian nation. Many people they went [42:25] Mark Miller and others from America, [42:27] they shared the gospel for 30 years only [42:29] 30 people came to Christ. Right now in [42:32] Iran life only we saw 10,000 people came [42:35] to Christ last year. We need to sow, we [42:37] need to you know, water and the wait. So [42:40] my last I think is just be patient. Be [42:43] you be love of Christ in action. Show [42:46] the unconditional love and pray [42:48] continuously. A stubborn heart [42:51] and then continue with the acts. [42:53] Sometimes we need to be patient like in [42:55] my family. Right now 32 of my family are [42:59] Christian inside Iran. All of them [43:01] believers inside Iran but took many [43:03] years. 32 member 32 and they are going, [43:07] you know, they sharing the gospel with [43:09] other friends and other friends and last [43:11] time I spoke I said what happened they [43:12] said we sow a seed. We are waiting to [43:14] return. So please be a patient. Don't [43:17] disappoint and dishearten when you share [43:20] and they feel rejected. Me, Hediyeh, [43:22] many of us we are part of those people. [43:24] We rejected but because of the [43:26] unconditional love of Christ and the [43:28] patience of the Lord, God is doing [43:30] journey in our heart if you don't give [43:31] up. [43:32] >> That is so beautiful. I I want to also [43:35] give people the information for how to [43:37] reach you. So it's Iranalive.org. That's [43:40] where they can get a hold of the film as [43:42] well and you have Instagram at Shaw [43:44] Connection if I'm correct. [43:46] They can follow you on Instagram on Shaw [43:48] Connection. Thank you so much Reverend [43:50] Shaw. You are dear friend, a dear [43:51] brother in Christ. Thank you for coming [43:52] on the show and don't miss us next time [43:55] on the Real Life Network. [44:06] >> [music] [44:16] >> Mhm.
