Transcript [00:00] What I do know is that in 2026, [00:03] the question of the Jews in America is [00:06] in a meaningful sense on the ballot, [00:09] just as it's going to be in a more [00:11] pressing sense on the ballot in 2028. If [00:16] Israel becomes as toxic in American [00:18] politics as it now is in European [00:22] politics, we are all in a world of [00:24] trouble. [00:24] >> People are are scared right now. I hear [00:26] from our Jewish community, especially [00:28] our young people who have, you know, [00:31] experienced the the horrors of a post [00:34] October 7th moment on their college [00:36] campuses. They're afraid to wear the [00:39] Star of David. They're afraid to express [00:41] their Judaism. We are getting attacked [00:44] left and right. It is a very hostile [00:45] moment. We're focused and we need we [00:48] know what we need to do to actually [00:50] overcome it, but overcoming socialism [00:52] and overcoming anti-semitism. No, I I [00:54] would say we can do this if we stick [00:56] together, focus, and fight. And Hillary [00:58] and I, believe me, are are not going [01:00] quietly. Like, they're going to come at [01:02] us, the socialists. And by the way, [01:04] we're coming at them. [01:18] Ever listen to Call Me Back and think to [01:20] yourself, "This would be so much better [01:22] if a meat went on a rant about the [01:23] latest celebrity who said something [01:25] stupid about Israel." Or if Nadav ranked [01:27] every member of Knesset by how hot they [01:29] are. Tune in to our show, Chosen People [01:31] Problems for the Real News. Yeah, [01:33] because that's what the world needs. [01:34] More Jews in media. [01:36] >> Yeah. Like more Jews with strong [01:38] opinions about things. [01:39] >> I think we should do it one more time. I [01:40] don't want to do Yeah. I can't. You [01:42] could say it. I just don't want to say [01:44] it. [01:44] >> What did I say? [01:45] >> We both did. Yeah. Like we're not. Why [01:47] are we doing that? It sounds so [01:49] Sorry for those listening and [01:51] editing this. [01:52] >> It's gonna get worse from here. By the [01:54] way, listen to our show, Chosen People [01:57] Problems. This should actually be the [01:59] intro. Okay. Chosen People Problems. [02:02] We're like a meet and a Dove, but more [02:04] so. Please tune in or Dan Cena will be [02:07] mad at us. You can find Chosen People [02:09] Problems wherever you get your podcasts. [02:11] You can also listen adree and get access [02:13] to our weekly exclusive bonus episode by [02:15] joining Arklus at arcdia.org. [02:19] >> It's 7:30 p.m. on Monday, October 12th [02:22] here at Temple Israel. [02:25] You see, Steve assured me [02:28] there are actual listeners of Call Me [02:30] Back in the audience. But [02:38] the true test is if they react to the [02:40] time stamp. you passed the test. [02:43] Um, [02:45] it's wonderful to be here. It's sort of [02:47] I I say like it's wonderful to be home [02:49] because I spent some of my formative [02:50] years in politics and my professional [02:53] life here not far from here. You know, I [02:57] was I was squatting in our friends the [02:59] Winer's home uh in the mid '9s. I won't [03:02] say what exact year in the '9s cuz I [03:04] will date myself, but uh working on [03:06] political campaigns uh back in the '90s. [03:09] So, and there are so many familiar faces [03:10] here. So, like I said, it's great to be [03:12] home. Um, [03:16] over the last three years, I have spent [03:20] a lot of time in rooms like this one, [03:23] synagogues, day schools, JCC's, [03:26] campus, kabads, and hills. I've even [03:29] davened at the JRC at the University of [03:32] Michigan. [03:36] By the way, there are there is a [03:38] contingent of students here tonight from [03:40] the University of Michigan that show up [03:41] here from Ann Arbor. [03:47] And as I've traveled around this [03:50] country, and not just this country, over [03:52] the past three years, I've come to [03:55] appreciate that just about every Jew in [03:59] the diaspora [04:01] has over the past three years a before [04:03] and an after. [04:05] Folks in Bondi Beach have a before and [04:08] an after. Jews at that synagogue in [04:11] Manchester in the UK have a before and [04:13] the after. Jews throughout places like [04:16] Toronto and Montreal and in cities [04:19] across America have a before and the [04:21] after. And for this community, the after [04:24] began on March 12th. [04:27] And I would be remiss if I didn't say [04:31] that it is a true miracle, but not only [04:34] a miracle, that all of those children [04:37] from that day came out of this place [04:40] physically unharmed. And it is a part a [04:43] tribute to the staff and security that [04:47] work for this institution and some of [04:49] whom are here tonight. And I just want [04:51] to acknowledge them. [05:05] I have was invited tonight to talk about [05:09] the stakes for our community in these [05:13] politically polarizing times. [05:16] I'm not going to tell anyone in this [05:18] room, don't worry, Steve, I'm not going [05:20] to tell anyone in this room how to vote. [05:23] I'm not even going to discuss the [05:25] upcoming election of 2026. [05:28] I won't be talking about the characters [05:30] or the candidates or the dyn the [05:32] dynamics. I won't be engaging any rank [05:34] pundantry, [05:35] but I do want to spend a few moments not [05:38] necessarily on 2026, but on another [05:40] year, and that year is 11:44. [05:45] We can learn a lot about today by [05:48] looking back at the year 1144. [05:51] Because whether it's 2026 or 11:44, [05:55] the issues that bring us together here [05:57] tonight are in a sense the same. [06:01] They are part of a threestep playbook. [06:04] And if I can leave you with anything [06:06] tonight, it is that clear recognition of [06:10] this three-step playbook. [06:13] Step one is the accusation. [06:17] A Jew is accused of a crime. That story [06:21] begins in Norwich, England in 1144 [06:26] with a dead boy named William. [06:30] A Jew is accused of the murder. [06:34] Step two is the expansion. [06:37] The crime doesn't belong to just one [06:40] Jew. It belongs to all Jews. Collective [06:45] complicity. In 1144, the crime was a [06:48] ritual, a Jewish ritual. Therefore, all [06:52] Jews were complicit. [06:55] It may have been one man accused, but [06:57] the entire community, the Jewish people [07:00] were complicit. Step three is the [07:04] punishment. Once every Jew is deemed [07:07] guilty, [07:09] any Jew can be punished [07:12] anywhere. [07:14] That's the blood liel. It began in [07:16] England in 1144 and it traveled across [07:19] Europe for the next eight centuries. [07:23] Now, fast forward to today. [07:26] Step one, within days of October 7th, [07:29] before Israel had even responded to the [07:31] massacre that killed more than 1,000 [07:33] Israelis and stole more than 250 people [07:37] into Gaza, including, I should add, [07:40] dozens of American citizens. Israel is [07:44] accused of genocide and the image at the [07:47] center of the accusation on every screen [07:50] and every rally is dead Palestinian [07:54] children. [07:56] Step two, the accusation doesn't stay [08:00] with the Israeli government. It expands [08:03] to every Jewish day school in the [08:05] diaspora, every JCC, every synagogue, [08:08] every kosher restaurant, every Jewish [08:10] cultural institution, anywhere where [08:14] Jewish students or Jewish congregants [08:17] gather and convene in a place where [08:19] there's an Israeli flag or recites the [08:21] prayer for the state of Israel or faces [08:24] Jerusalem when its congregants or [08:26] students pray. They are all and listen [08:30] for this word because once you hear this [08:33] word you will hear it everywhere. [08:36] They are all complicit. [08:40] That word is doing all the work. [08:44] Complicit [08:46] is step two. It's how you get expansion [08:50] to all Jews. And step three, well, [08:54] rather than describe step three, I'll [08:57] illustrate step three, which is the [08:59] punishment. You remember from the [09:01] three-step playbook, the third step is [09:03] always the punishment. And I'll give you [09:05] a contemporary snapshot of what that [09:09] step three looks like. I'll do it with a [09:11] 7-week stretch in the spring of 2025. [09:16] And I'll give you one example after the [09:18] other. April 13th, 2025, [09:22] the first night of Passover. Governor [09:24] Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania hosts a [09:27] seder at the governor's residence. Hours [09:30] later, after his family has gone to bed, [09:32] a man firebombs the residence. Then that [09:35] same terrorist calls 911 to explain [09:38] himself. The governor, this firebomber [09:42] said, needed to know that the firebomber [09:46] would not take part in Governor [09:48] Shapiro's plans for the Palestinian [09:50] people. Josh Shapiro does not run [09:54] Israel's war in Gaza. He is a Jewish [09:56] governor of an American state who had [09:59] just finished his seder with his family. [10:02] Josh Shapiro [10:04] was complicit. [10:06] May 21st, Washington DC. Yun Lashinski [10:10] and Sarah Mgrim, a young couple who [10:13] worked at the Israeli embassy. They were [10:16] to be engaged the following week in [10:18] Jerusalem, walk out of an event at the [10:20] Capital Jewish Museum. [10:23] A gunman shoots them from behind and [10:26] keeps firing after they have fallen. [10:30] Within the hour, a manifesto in his name [10:33] is online. [10:34] The word at its center is genocide. The [10:39] genocides quote perpetrators and abeters [10:42] he wrote had forfeited their humanity. A [10:46] betters that is another word for [10:49] complicit. Euron and Sarah were [10:53] complicit. [10:54] June 1st, Boulder, Colorado. A small [10:58] group, mostly older people, is doing [11:01] what they've done every week for more [11:03] than a year and a half up to that point. [11:06] Walking down Pearl Street, calling for [11:08] the hostages to be returned home. A man [11:11] disguised as a gardener throws Molotov [11:14] cocktails into the crowd. He tells [11:16] investigators he wanted to kill all [11:19] Zionist people. Karen Diamond, 82 years [11:23] old, a member of her local synagogue, [11:26] dies of her injuries. Karen Diamond was [11:31] complicit. [11:33] Three attacks, [11:35] three states over the course of seven [11:39] weeks, different men, different [11:42] backgrounds, [11:44] different politics, [11:46] but one logic. a logic [11:49] that is repeatedly reinforced by some of [11:53] this country's leading politicians from [11:56] New York City where I live to here in [11:59] Michigan where you live. [12:02] And then this m this past March here, [12:05] the man who attacked this building [12:08] didn't go to a military base to protest [12:11] the war. He didn't go to an embassy. He [12:14] came to a reformed synagogue in West [12:16] Bloomfield, Michigan. with a children's [12:19] center just down the hall. The over 100 [12:22] children in this building were [12:25] complicit. [12:27] Accusation, [12:29] expansion, [12:31] punishment. [12:32] Same playbook. [12:35] And then you add that word that I [12:37] mentioned earlier, genocide. [12:40] Why genocide? [12:42] Why that word? [12:44] Because it does two things. No other [12:47] word can do. First, it encompasses all [12:51] of us. However false the charge, and to [12:55] be clear, it is false. [12:58] It makes every Jew who feels any [13:01] connection to Israel, which is the [13:03] overwhelming majority of American Jews, [13:06] an an accessory to the worst crime [13:09] humanity has a name for. [13:12] Second, and this is the part that I hope [13:17] you will sit with. [13:19] The word genocide [13:21] settles the question of Israel's [13:24] existence. [13:26] Ask yourself, can a decent person [13:29] believe that a genocidal state has a [13:32] right to exist? [13:35] How could a responsible member of the US [13:36] Senate support defensive aid if it's [13:40] going to a genocidal state? Once you [13:44] accept the label, wanting Israel gone, [13:49] isn't bigotry anymore. It's virtue. [13:53] The label turns the elimination of the [13:56] Jewish state, the place where the [13:58] majority of Jews in the world live, into [14:02] a cause. And it's a cause for good [14:05] people [14:07] and it's spreading. Last Thursday, the [14:10] Nobel Peace Prize went to Na'vi Palai [14:13] who chaired the UN commission that [14:15] declared Israel guilty of genocide. [14:19] Before that, UN raptors, Amnesty [14:22] International, Human Rights Watch, an [14:25] association of genocide scholars, then [14:28] heads of government, Spain, Brazil, [14:30] Turkey, Colombia, I can go on, and now [14:32] increasingly, [14:34] American politicians. [14:36] So, here's why it matters. In 2026, [14:39] the genocide label has moved from the [14:43] campus to the street to the platforms of [14:47] people asking for your vote. When a when [14:51] an elected official adopts that word, [14:54] they aren't just making a foreign policy [14:57] argument. Whether they intend it or not, [15:01] they are completing step two of the step [15:04] of the three-step playbook I described. [15:07] They are telling the man with the rifle [15:09] or the man with the Molotov cocktail [15:12] who is complicit and who is not. [15:16] So I'll just close with this before [15:18] introducing my [15:20] guests for these conversations. [15:23] I believe the Jewish people will outlast [15:28] this liel [15:30] the way we outlasted everyone before it. [15:33] The question for this community though [15:36] in this building a few weeks before an [15:39] election isn't what the world believes [15:42] about us. It's what it's about what we [15:46] are willing to stand up for. Will we let [15:49] this liel go mainstream on our watch? Or [15:54] will we insist loudly and in every [15:58] party, both the Democratic Party and the [16:00] Republican party, that it stops here? [16:14] Natan Sharansky, the famous Soviet [16:17] refusnic and one of my heroes, [16:22] wrote powerfully this past weekend in [16:25] Tablet magazine about the blood liel [16:28] about the blood liel I'm speaking about [16:29] tonight, the genocide blood liel. And I [16:32] just want to quote from what he said. [16:35] Natan Sharansky writes, "Our goal should [16:39] not be to convince the rest of the world [16:41] that we are right. [16:43] Our existence does not depend on a vote [16:45] in the United Nations. It depends in our [16:48] own belief in the righteousness of [16:50] Jewish civilization." Of course, [16:54] Sheransky writes, "We're not above [16:56] criticism, and we must acknowledge and [16:58] correct course when we deviate from our [17:01] own standards, [17:03] but remaining vigilant about our [17:05] shortcomings is not the same as [17:08] accepting guilt we do not deserve." And [17:12] so [17:19] and so Sheransky goes on when our [17:21] children and grandchildren [17:24] ask us [17:25] how the whole world can believe there is [17:27] a genocide if in fact there is no [17:29] genocide. We should stand firm in the [17:32] conviction of what we know to be true. [17:36] That's Sheransky. So [17:39] what will we tell our children and [17:41] grandchildren? [17:43] This was not a theoretical question for [17:47] Sheransky when he was in the goolog [17:51] and sadly it is not a theoretical [17:54] question for us here today. [17:57] Those children and grandchildren [18:00] include the 100 plus children who were [18:02] in this building on March 12th. [18:04] I thought about them a lot as I was [18:06] coming over here tonight. [18:09] 18 years from now, [18:12] God willing, they will be walking onto [18:14] college quads all over this country. [18:19] Who they become in ways that we don't [18:22] always realize will be the result of the [18:26] example we all set during these times. [18:31] My prayer is that they will walk onto [18:35] those quads as proud Jews, knowing who [18:37] they are and where they come from, and [18:41] that no one anywhere [18:44] will accuse them of being complicit. [18:47] Thank you. [18:57] Now, I know this event was built as Dan [19:00] Senor and friends, and you're all [19:03] probably wondering who the friends are. [19:06] Um, and um, one of the most interesting [19:10] things I enjoy about my podcast is I [19:14] often have conversations with people [19:16] with whom I sometimes agree, sometimes [19:19] disagree, but share a set of values and [19:22] a worldview and we can have spirited [19:24] conversations. [19:26] And one of those um frequent guests who [19:31] has challenged my thinking on a number [19:34] of matters uh agreed to join us tonight. [19:39] Brett Stevens is [19:49] Brett Stevens is a Pulitzer Prizewinning [19:53] uh journalist. previously with the Wall [19:56] Street Journal. Today he is with the New [19:58] York Times. I know I'm sure his column [20:01] is required reading for many people uh [20:04] in this room here tonight. [20:07] He is he is a best-selling author and I [20:11] would say he's one of the most [20:12] intellectually curious and morally [20:17] consistent and morally clear public [20:21] intellectuals I know in American life [20:24] today. Please join me in welcoming Brett [20:27] Stevens. [20:30] >> Welcome to West Bluefield. [20:32] >> I didn't know we ever disagreed about [20:34] anything. [20:34] >> I know. Well, I just don't yell at you [20:37] about it. So, you feel like, "Oh, Dan's [20:39] so agreeable." [20:40] >> Yeah. Um, I want to cut right to it [20:45] because I think a question on a lot of [20:46] people's minds and you and I were [20:48] talking about this earlier is on the one [20:51] hand our politics have gotten so toxic [20:55] that for many Jews they feel during an [20:58] election season that they are presented [21:02] with [21:04] the choice of [21:07] having to act in some way to protect the [21:09] Jewish community, Jewish life, however [21:12] one wants to characterize that. And what [21:15] I often hear is, "But democracyy's on [21:17] the ballot and you know these elections, [21:20] whether they're the midterm elections or [21:22] the next presidential, whatever, maybe [21:23] democracy's on the ballot, and there's a [21:25] tension between those two, and how am I [21:28] going to make that choice?" Now, again, [21:30] we're not talking about individual [21:31] candidates. We're not talking about [21:32] individual races. That wasn't a joke. [21:38] But how do you, Brett Stevens, think [21:40] about resolving that tension? [21:43] >> Uh, first of all, it's [21:45] really a a delight to be here and [21:48] amazing how many people came on such [21:50] short notice for you, Dan. Um, that's [21:53] that's a tribute [21:54] >> and friends. [21:55] >> And friends, mystery friends. Look, uh, [22:00] I've now reached an age when I can [22:02] remember when democracy was on the [22:03] ballot in 1984, [22:06] 2000, 2008, 2016, 20, 24, now 26. And [22:13] we're going to be saying the same thing [22:15] in in two years time. And I'm pretty [22:17] sure I'm pretty sure that come January [22:21] 20th, 21st, 2029, some other person is [22:25] going to be president of the United [22:26] States. So on that score, my advice is [22:32] to relax. [22:34] However, what really is on the ballot, I [22:37] think, is the question not of democracy, [22:41] but of liberalism. And by that I don't [22:43] mean contemporary, you know, left of [22:46] center politics. I mean maintaining a [22:50] spirit of liberty alive in the minds of [22:54] people which means an independence of [22:56] thought, a reverence for pluralism, a [23:00] belief in argument for the sake of [23:02] heaven, a a powerful uh commitment to [23:07] the ideals that have sustained America [23:09] as a uh free society. And that's because [23:13] an illiberal spirit has taken over both [23:17] parties. Tomorrow morning, if you read [23:19] the New York Times online, you you will [23:22] wake up and you will see, I know this [23:24] because I wrote it at 5:00 this morning [23:26] in order to get here on time, a pretty [23:30] uh I think powerful palemic um about the [23:33] current administration. I am a right of [23:36] center commentator who believed it was [23:38] my duty because I was on the right of [23:41] center to police what I thought were the [23:45] illiberal currents running through a [23:48] Republican party for which I used to [23:50] vote. I think it's equally incumbent on [23:53] people to to on the other side to ask [23:56] themselves what are the illiberal [23:58] currents running through the other uh [24:01] party and what is their responsibility [24:04] to maintain moral hygiene on their side. [24:08] And I know how difficult that is when [24:11] you are a partisan. When you are told [24:16] that the other party coming to power is [24:18] the end of the world or the end of of [24:21] democracy. Resisting that tide takes [24:24] immense moral clarity and political [24:27] courage. And I salute those politicians [24:30] who some of whom may be in this room. [24:32] I'm not going to say it. But I would [24:34] salute those politicians who display [24:37] that clarity and courage. What I do know [24:39] is that in 2026, [24:42] the question of the Jews in America is [24:45] in a meaningful sense on the ballot, [24:48] just as it's going to be in a more [24:50] pressing sense on the ballot in 2028. [24:54] If Israel becomes as toxic in American [24:57] politics as it now is in European [25:00] politics, we are all in a world of [25:03] trouble. And I can tell you this from my [25:04] experience as a New Yorker. We have now [25:08] a mayor [25:10] who seems to think that his principal [25:12] job is not to fix our broken schools, [25:16] not to fix our broken roads, but to [25:18] denounce and pronounce on matters of [25:21] foreign policy. And it has become worse [25:24] since our mayor in New York, I'm sorry [25:27] to say, my mayor in uh in New York has [25:30] gotten into office. This is a kind of a [25:34] kind of a permission to other [25:36] politicians to treat Israel in this way. [25:41] You'll notice that in his uh statement [25:43] the other day ostensibly commemorating [25:46] October 7th, the the genocide blood liel [25:50] was front and center. And that's making [25:53] conditions for honorable and decent [25:55] democratic politicians to oppose him and [25:58] denounce him very difficult. So that's [26:01] what's really at stake here. You know, [26:03] there's an old saying, what begins with [26:05] the Jews rarely ends with the Jews. [26:08] Well, it is beginning with the Jews. And [26:10] this is, I think, what's at stake this [26:13] in in in in the coming weeks towards [26:15] election day. [26:16] >> Brett, you may not remember this, but on [26:18] October 8th, 2023, [26:21] you were in my home. [26:22] >> I remember it vividly. [26:24] >> And you, we were recording a podcast at [26:26] my apartment, and you came late [26:28] afternoon, early evening, and you came [26:30] from a rally in Time Square, a DSA rally [26:35] in Time Square, and you said, and I [26:37] remember you came to my apartment on the [26:38] airport side. You go, so weird. I went [26:40] to this rally. I mean, they're still [26:42] like gathering bodies and body parts in [26:45] southern Israel and I'm on this I'm in [26:47] this rally that you said this like this [26:49] weekend the weekend of October 7th and [26:51] the rally was accusing Israel of [26:54] genocide already. And the phrase I'm [26:57] always like gobsmacked by on October 8th [26:59] is they were ceasefire now. They're call [27:01] now to to call for a ceasefire on [27:03] October 8th while there's over 250 [27:06] hostages in Gaza and is to say Israel [27:09] Israel can't defend itself. That's what [27:11] you're basically saying that there and [27:13] you and I had this conversation. You're [27:15] like, you know, I don't know if this is [27:16] kind of like a fringe thing. I mean, [27:18] there weren't that many people there and [27:20] it seemed kind of obscure. And now we [27:24] know that the mayor of New York City was [27:28] of that crowd, that October 8th [27:30] ceasefire now crowd. Candidates for [27:33] Congress that will most certainly be [27:35] elected. They've won their nominations [27:36] in very deep blue districts in New York [27:39] were at that rally. So what about that [27:43] did you get wrong? In other words, you [27:45] you came away from that thinking this is [27:47] kind of fringy. Like I don't even think [27:49] you had fully anticipated we would get [27:52] from that to this. [27:54] >> Uh I don't think I got something wrong. [27:57] >> Well, yeah. And you have nothing to say [27:59] about my humility, Dan. Um [28:02] >> that's what I'm here for. [28:04] >> That was the moment the concept of the [28:07] October 8th Jew [28:09] began taking shape in my mind. And I [28:11] think maybe my claim to fame in the [28:13] afterlife will be that I coined that [28:15] expression [28:17] because what I saw on the faces of those [28:20] demonstrators in Time Square who then [28:22] marched to the Israeli consulate on uh [28:26] Third Avenue was euphoria. I remember [28:29] turning to a friend who was watching [28:32] this at the same time and I said, "You [28:33] know, they remind me of the Argentines [28:37] after Argentina won the World Cup the [28:39] last uh time around. Like it was the [28:42] best day of their lives. There were,200 [28:45] slaughtered human beings in a foreign [28:47] country, 250 people being visibly taken [28:50] away in horrific circumstances. Women [28:54] where it was clear they had been raped. [28:56] Clear. And these people were cheering. [28:59] This was marvelous to them. And at the [29:03] time I I in this respect I think I got [29:06] something wrong. [29:07] >> It's a big concession. [29:08] >> It's a concession. When I looked at [29:10] them, I realized I wasn't the only Jew [29:13] who was seeing this. And by the way, not [29:14] just in Times Square, the student [29:16] statement of the at at Harvard [29:19] University, the encampment movement, the [29:21] very quickly uh gathered pace at elite [29:24] colleges and universities uh around [29:26] around the country, the deafening [29:28] silence from institutional leaders, [29:31] university uh presidents uh and so on. [29:34] And at the time I said, you know, on [29:35] October 8th, the Jewish community is [29:37] discovering who its friends are not. You [29:41] know, the Jewish community has been [29:43] there for so many other groups that have [29:48] suffered bigotry and oppression and uh [29:52] have been marginalized. [29:54] And on that day, the worst day in Jewish [29:57] history since uh the liberation of uh [30:00] Bergen Bellson and since the end of the [30:02] Shawah, the friends for whom we had [30:04] stood firm and tall hadn't been there [30:07] for us. And so my initial idea of the [30:09] October 8th Jew was kind of waking up [30:12] and realizing that the call was coming [30:15] from inside the house, that our [30:16] neighbors weren't the people we thought [30:18] they were. It took me a while to [30:20] realize. I think I got that definition [30:22] only half right. I think on October 8th, [30:26] Jews, particularly Jews who had whose [30:29] whose whose loyalty and affinity and [30:33] sense of identification had been fairly [30:36] weak before then woke up and started [30:40] trying to remember who we are and what [30:44] we're about and why it's so important [30:47] for our Jewishness. And I say [30:48] Jewishness, not Judaism, because it's [30:50] I'm not just meaning this religiously. [30:52] I'm meaning this culturally and [30:54] civilizationally why it needs to become [30:57] the centering fact of our lives. You [30:59] know, our mutual friend Darra Horn said [31:02] something to me over locks and bagels uh [31:05] a couple weeks a few weeks ago. She [31:07] said, "You know what matters about what [31:09] kind of Jew you are isn't whether your [31:11] grandparents were Jewish. What matters [31:13] is whether your grandchildren are be are [31:15] going to be Jewish. What are you doing [31:17] to make sure of that?" And what I hope [31:20] every October 8th Jew is doing is [31:22] thinking on that question. [31:24] >> Another [31:26] response to I think what you are [31:27] articulating that that many will come [31:31] back with is okay. [31:35] Israel's not guilty of genocide. We the [31:38] Jewish people are not complicit [31:41] in a genocidal campaign. But come on, [31:45] Brett. There is serious Palestinian [31:47] suffering going on in Gaza and the West [31:52] Bank. And don't you believe Israel and [31:56] the Jewish people around the world that [31:58] are supportive of Israel have some kind [32:01] of responsibility to address that? [32:04] >> Let me begin with something basic. [32:06] Israel didn't come into history, didn't [32:09] become a state [32:11] so that we could showcase Jewish [32:14] victimization. [32:17] Israel came into existence with one [32:20] overriding purpose, which was to end [32:24] Jewish victimization. [32:26] And I was just in Israel less than a [32:28] week ago. You came back just yesterday. [32:31] >> I landed at 4:15 this morning. [32:32] >> 4:15 this morning. [32:35] What you see overwhelmingly when you go [32:37] to Israel is young men and women who are [32:40] putting their life on the line in [32:41] innumerable ways to make sure that [32:44] Israel fulfills that basic promise not [32:46] just to the Jewish people in Israel but [32:49] to all of us in this room particularly [32:51] in this room. [32:57] I want to make two slightly separate [33:00] points. One is that Israel is not a [33:02] nation of saints. And part of the [33:05] problem that we have is that when we [33:08] think of Israel as a nation of saints, [33:10] any any fall from that standard seems to [33:13] condemn us as sinners. But we're not a [33:15] nation of Israel, the country is not a [33:17] nation of saints. There's some terrible [33:19] people. They're doing awful things. I [33:22] call it out in my column. Just as here [33:25] in America, there are bad people doing [33:27] bad things. I'm still a proud American. [33:29] I am proud of myself as an American even [33:32] as I am aware that this country has done [33:35] wrong by other people. It's not [33:38] impossible to hold those two thoughts in [33:41] your mind that there is wrongdoing in [33:43] America and yet the overwhelming spirit [33:46] of this country has been like Israel to [33:49] be a light unto the nations. Right. [33:51] Point one. [33:55] And there is no sane person on earth who [33:59] can't feel brokenhearted about the pain [34:02] of innocent Palestinian civilians, [34:05] elderly women, children who are caught [34:07] in the crossfire. But we're also a [34:10] morally astute nation who ought to know [34:13] where blame for that belongs in Ukraine. [34:17] And I've I've been to Kev, you know, [34:19] where the alerts are sounding and the [34:21] and Russian missiles and and cruise [34:23] missiles and drones are attacking Kev. [34:25] In Kev, when Russians are attacking, [34:29] civilians go underground into the metro [34:31] station and very brave Ukrainians are [34:34] above ground trying to shoot down the [34:36] drones. In Gaza, Hamas was underground [34:40] protecting itself in a warrant of [34:42] tunnels, eating food stolen from [34:45] civilian people and civilian aid [34:47] agencies, and they were allowing the [34:51] civilians to be outdoors to be up there. [34:54] That the cynicism of using your own [34:57] population for the purpose of being [35:00] human shields and propaganda tools is a [35:03] staggering form of evil. You know, my my [35:07] wife is a convert. Her father was born [35:10] in Hamburg. She's German. Her father was [35:12] born in Hamburg in 1934. [35:15] His father was killed as a political [35:17] prisoner in Bkhenvald. [35:19] In 1943, 1944, when the when when the [35:24] Allies were firebombing German cities, [35:28] the Nazis, the the most evil regime [35:31] imaginable, actually sent women and [35:33] children into the countryside. right? Uh [35:36] and civil defense forces stayed in the [35:38] cities, but the women and children got [35:39] out got out of the city. Right. The [35:42] Hamas from the very beginning of the [35:45] war, from right after October 7th, 2023, [35:48] was insisting that Gazan civilians not [35:52] obey [35:54] IDF orders to evacuate from areas where [35:57] they knew there were military [35:59] installations in place or dug [36:01] underground. That is the wretchedness of [36:04] that is appalling. But what's also [36:07] appalling is that so many people who [36:09] claim to be intelligent people in the [36:11] west are falling for the most despicable [36:14] kind of propaganda from a terrorist [36:17] organization. [36:20] And let me add something else. [36:23] Anyone [36:26] who cares for the right of women, anyone [36:28] who cares for the right of gays and [36:30] lesbians, anyone who cares for the right [36:33] of dissent, anyone who cares to one day [36:35] have a Palestinian state that will live [36:38] in peace and prosperity side by side [36:42] with Israel should want the destruction [36:44] of Hamas because there will never be a [36:47] Palestinian state until that happens. [36:50] Until that happens, until this cult is [36:54] eliminated, just as we could never have [36:55] had a West Germany with which we could [36:58] live in peace and have as an ally until [37:00] we defeated the regime that came before [37:02] it, these are not difficult concepts. [37:04] What's frightening is it's they become [37:06] so difficult to explain in today's [37:08] political environment. [37:13] When you were in Israel [37:16] in recent days, you made this [37:18] observation that the topics we're [37:20] talking about tonight really are not I [37:23] mean we are talking about issues related [37:25] to the Jewish community, but the fate of [37:28] the Jewish community is not just about [37:30] the Jewish community. that it also is [37:32] about the fate of civilizations of the [37:36] west, of America, of great cities, of [37:38] great states like Michigan. And if the [37:41] Jews are driven underground, [37:44] it's not only the Jews. It's not just [37:47] this point about what starts with the [37:49] Jews doesn't end with the Jews. That [37:50] there's there's actually real macro [37:52] implications for Jews being made to feel [37:55] the way Jews are being made to feel [37:57] today. Can you talk a little about that? [38:00] Look, you gave a magnificent speech just [38:02] before I got uh on stage. It's also a [38:06] historical fact that every [38:11] state, empire, kingdom that has driven [38:14] away its Jews or pushed down its Jews [38:18] has ended up poor uh and worse. um [38:23] whether that was in Spain uh or in Iraq [38:27] or in Egypt or in Persia or in Germany, [38:31] you name it. And there is a link by the [38:33] way between the uh title wave of [38:37] anti-semitism that is sweeping Europe [38:40] today uh which is a terrible development [38:43] and the fact that Europe is becoming a [38:45] diminishing factor or diminished factor [38:48] in uh uh in international life. You [38:51] know, the question I always ask myself, [38:53] uh, Dan, is what form of Jewish time are [38:56] we living in? And what I mean by that is [38:59] that as as an American Jew, as American [39:02] Jews, we inhabit two distinct forms of [39:04] time. One is diasporic time. And if you [39:08] look at the course of the diaspora, [39:10] um, what you find is that our zenith [39:15] um, always becomes our precipice. the [39:18] Jews rise, they become influential, they [39:20] become established, they become [39:22] comfortable. Um, they become a little [39:24] blind to what's going on around them. [39:26] And there is a very sudden collapse for [39:29] Jewish communities like the ones I just [39:31] mentioned. If if I were to draw on a [39:34] chart, uh, the history of Jews in the [39:37] diaspora, it would kind of look like [39:38] this, [39:41] like that. In in the 1920s, just to give [39:44] you an example, the most powerful man in [39:46] Germany was Jewish, Walter Ratnau. The [39:49] greatest scientist in Germany was [39:50] Jewish, Albert Einstein. The greatest [39:52] philosopher in Germany was Jewish, [39:54] Edmund Hassurl. I could go on. Greatest [39:56] doctor, Ottovon Meerhoff. That was the [39:58] 1920s. That's just on the eve of the [40:00] rise of Hitler and the Third Reich. And [40:03] so there are moments, and this is one of [40:06] those moments when I wonder, is America [40:08] part of the same pattern? Is it is this [40:11] going to be the way for us too? On the [40:14] other hand, if you look at American [40:15] history, [40:16] it moves in a different way. You know, [40:19] in 1654, a bunch of Jews get off the [40:22] boat in New Amsterdam. The anti-semitic [40:24] mayor of the joint wants to kick him [40:26] out. He has no idea that in 300 years, [40:29] the smartest Jews who will ever live [40:31] will go to a high school named after [40:33] him. Um, [40:36] Stverson. [40:38] and uh he writes to say I want to kick [40:40] these guys out and his colonial masters [40:42] in Holland say no they stay and in 1862 [40:45] to his later shame Ulyses Grant wants to [40:48] kick out the Jews from Paduca Kentucky [40:50] and he's remanded by Abraham Lincoln and [40:53] says the Jews stay this is not the [40:55] American way 1939 we turn back the St. [40:58] Lewis tragically. But in 1948, the best [41:02] the best picture winner is a gentleman's [41:04] agreement. America felt revolted. And [41:06] there's a beautiful line in Bill [41:08] Clinton's first inaugural address. [41:10] Really a great line. He says, "There is [41:12] nothing wrong in America that can't be [41:14] cured by what is right in America." And [41:16] I think this is one of those moments in [41:18] our history when that proposition from [41:22] Clinton is being put to the test. Will [41:25] the forces in America, the right forces [41:28] in America, I don't mean right-wing, I [41:29] mean the good forces in America, be able [41:32] to cure what is wrong in America? My [41:35] prayer is that they will be. [41:39] In order to do that, you know, you and [41:41] I, and I think many people in this room, [41:43] as you've alluded to, have lamented the [41:46] people over the last 3 years who have [41:48] let us down. You know what I mean? This [41:50] like, [41:51] >> you know, whoever you might be, [41:53] >> whoever you might be. um causes, [41:56] nonprofit organizations, schools, [41:58] universities, [42:00] the workplace, your children's schools, [42:02] whatever it may be. You're you're sort [42:03] of like, wait, what? Like you're you're [42:05] kind of shocked by these people who you [42:08] thought were standing [42:08] shoulder-to-shoulder with you, and then [42:11] you are kind of jostled when you realize [42:15] how at best they're just quiet. They're [42:18] just silent. That's like at best. And I [42:21] think I said we spent a lot of time [42:23] lamenting that and lamenting those [42:25] people and I don't think we put enough [42:26] of a spotlight on those people who have [42:30] truly stuck their necks out. I think of [42:32] this great line by Douglas Murray who he [42:35] says that you know after October 7th [42:37] there are moments in history throughout [42:38] history where there's like a flash in [42:42] the sky like the sky is like illuminated [42:45] like with lightning and in that flash [42:47] you can look around and you can see [42:49] who's standing with you and who's not. [42:51] And October 7th was one of those those [42:54] flashes one of those moments where we [42:56] looked around and saw who was with us [42:57] and who was not. And two of those people [43:02] who have taken risks themselves are with [43:05] us tonight. And I and I want to I want [43:07] to first thank you Brett for this [43:10] conversation and for being here. We'll [43:12] be back in a minute. At Arc Media, we're [43:14] not sponsored by government, nor are we [43:16] an advocacy group. We are only [43:18] accountable to our listeners. That means [43:21] we're free to cover Israel and Jewish [43:23] life honestly and without compromise. [43:25] When you join ARK Plus, you support that [43:28] mission and you also get access to [43:30] membersonly episodes of Call Me Back for [43:32] Heaven's Sake, Ark News Daily, and [43:35] Chosen People Problems. Each of these [43:37] shows covers everything from Israel's [43:39] security and rising anti-semitism to [43:42] American politics and what it means to [43:44] be Jewish in this moment. If you're able [43:47] to consider becoming a member, you can [43:49] sign up for ARK Plus at arkdia.org or [43:53] follow the link in our show notes. And [43:55] we're back with part two of my live [43:57] event at Temple Israel in West [43:59] Bloomfield in Michigan. [44:02] And I want to bring up our next two [44:05] guests, [44:07] Congressman Josh Godheimer, who is here [44:09] from New Jersey, [44:12] and Congresswoman Hillary Schultton, [44:16] who's here from Michigan. So, please, [44:18] you two come up. [44:31] So, I guess uh Representative Shelton, [44:33] I'll start with you. Um there is a [44:36] Jewish community in your district, not a [44:37] large community, but there is a Jewish [44:38] community. Just let's pick right up from [44:41] where Brett left off. Tell me what, you [44:44] know, when you talk to your Jewish [44:46] constituents, what what's on their mind [44:47] in this moment? What are you hearing [44:49] from them? Yeah. Well, first of all, I [44:51] just want to say thank you so much, Dan, [44:53] for doing this event. Thank you to the [44:56] wonderful community here at at Temple [44:58] Israel for hosting us. I got emotional [45:01] uh pulling in here and and I I want to [45:03] say to this Jewish community here [45:05] tonight that we're with you. Uh you [45:07] know, Josh rearranged a lot of things to [45:09] be here tonight as well, as did I, [45:12] because it's so important for us to [45:14] communicate to you that we are with you [45:16] in this moment. [45:18] So, [45:20] I'd be remiss if I didn't mention we are [45:22] in the home district of our good friend [45:24] Haley Stevens, Congresswoman Haley [45:25] Stevens, [45:27] who is an incredible ally on this issue. [45:30] Uh, and and we are also joined by uh her [45:33] incredible future successor and our [45:36] future colleague, Jeremy Moss. You could [45:38] not have a better leader and I am so [45:41] excited to have him in the Congress with [45:43] us. Um, [45:46] people are scared. People are are scared [45:48] right now. I hear from our Jewish [45:50] community, especially our young people [45:52] who have, you know, experienced the the [45:56] horrors of a post October 7th moment on [45:58] their college campuses. They're afraid [46:01] to wear the Star of David. They're [46:03] afraid to express their Judaism. They're [46:06] afraid to, you know, really wrestle with [46:09] some of these the the the biggest issues [46:10] as we see, you know, this far-left [46:14] progressive movement. And you were so [46:15] right in the comments you made before [46:16] that this goes so far beyond, you know, [46:19] these these issues and they're feeling [46:23] really outnumbered. And I think that's [46:24] one of the main reasons why I have felt [46:27] so compelled to not be shy in speaking [46:30] out in this moment is that I want I want [46:33] American Jews, Michigan Jews to feel [46:36] like they have an ally and a champion [46:39] and and especially those of you who [46:41] identify as Democrats though regardless [46:43] of party that there's a place for you [46:45] and and you don't have to be silent or [46:47] afraid in this moment. Representative [46:49] Gonheimimer, you first of all, thank you [46:51] for being here and thank you for shleing [46:53] here because I know you and I talked a [46:54] lot over the last few days. This was not [46:56] easy uh for you to be here. Uh you are a [47:00] national voice. You also represent a [47:04] district in New Jersey. You like I have [47:06] seen firsthand this steamroller of the [47:09] rise of the DSA uh in our neck of the [47:12] woods. How would you describe to us what [47:16] you are seeing firsthand because you you [47:18] you're you sort of saw it early what was [47:21] happening and you were you were [47:22] outspoken early. So what is going on and [47:26] what is what is the threat? I'll be [47:28] honest with you. it is. I think most [47:30] people most Jewish people [47:33] uh who come up to me don't under they [47:36] don't understand what's happening or [47:38] what's happened in just in a very short [47:40] period of time and they're trying to [47:43] make sense of it but yet they they open [47:45] the paper every day turn on the TV look [47:47] on social media and especially on social [47:49] media and see the torrent of what's [47:51] coming at them and uh are saying what [47:54] well what should I still what should my [47:56] party be but what do I do at my kids. [47:58] I'm worried about their safety. And then [48:00] you have a whole another problem which I [48:03] think probably many of you can relate to [48:05] in here which is and the other day I was [48:07] at a a town fair and there was the town [48:11] environment table and I walked up the [48:13] mayor's walking me around and I said, [48:15] "Hey, you should meet this young woman. [48:16] She's the star of our town. The So I [48:18] said, "Hi, nice to meet you." And she [48:20] said, "I won't shake your hand. I'm [48:22] sorry, congressman. You're a genocider [48:24] and I'm Jewish and I don't like [48:26] genociders." and is a young Jewish [48:28] woman, right? And you know what I'm [48:31] talking about here. We have a huge [48:32] problem and and I and I root so much of [48:35] this in disinformation and [48:36] misinformation and it's spread not just [48:38] in our communities, not just among [48:41] Jewish people, but broadly of course and [48:45] really in the halls of Congress and it's [48:47] like a wildfire and it's very difficult [48:50] right now. feel right now it's very hard [48:52] to stop and to figure out how we stop it [48:54] and and that's kind of the moment we're [48:56] in right now of of just you were [48:58] mentioning this is just coming at us and [48:59] do you feel like it's it's sort of like [49:02] a hinge moment like it's not like oh we [49:04] can punt it's like it does feel like it [49:07] it's coming at us and we've got to deal [49:09] with it now [49:11] >> I I I I feel that you know we are [49:14] experiencing a moment where we will [49:16] actually have seven of members of the [49:19] DSA today who will be members of of [49:22] Congress, will be our colleagues in in [49:24] Congress. And you know, I I think about [49:27] the fact that we we've seen this before [49:30] in American history, right? When when uh [49:33] after World War II, as the the New Deal [49:35] started rolling out and and the rising [49:38] threat of communism, the Roosevelts took [49:40] this on in a in a very profound way, [49:43] right? Right. And Eleanor Roosevelt in [49:44] particular, who was a a great supporter [49:46] of Israel, you know, really took on [49:48] communism and said, "Yes, we're going to [49:50] have these strong social programs, [49:52] right?" Which many people feel attracted [49:55] to the message of the of the DSA right [49:58] now because of the emphasis on health [50:01] care, on jobs, right? That's where you [50:03] see some of these candidates rise up and [50:05] people don't even recognize the [50:06] underlying current of, you know, the the [50:09] US Israel uh relationship or the [50:12] anti-semitism that is a part of that. I [50:14] know we see that across Michigan where [50:16] many folks are saying, "Well, wait a [50:18] second. I wasn't even really thinking [50:19] about that aspect. I was just thinking [50:21] about healthcare and taking on [50:23] corruption." Uh we've seen this before, [50:26] right? And I think we have an incredible [50:28] example in Elanor Roosevelt, who is one [50:30] of my political heroes, who who really [50:32] took this on and said, "We're not going [50:33] to do McCarthyism, but we're also not [50:35] going to allow communism to to creep [50:38] up." But and and look, to build on that, [50:40] look what the other side has done very [50:41] effectively. I say the other side of our [50:43] views in the Democratic the broader [50:45] Democratic party. I don't consider [50:47] socialist Democrats in my opinion. I [50:49] think they're socialists and they should [50:51] not try to hijack our party. Um, [50:57] but what they've done is they've said, [50:58] "Okay, we're going to play on people's [51:00] anxiety and the situation they're living [51:02] in." Which, by the way, with gas prices [51:04] and food prices and healthcare prices, [51:06] people are getting crushed right now. [51:08] And and we get that. But what they've [51:11] done is in a they in a crafty way kind [51:13] of threw the Jewish thing into there. Um [51:16] and they kind of meldted it together and [51:18] it became a popular thing as part of [51:22] like venting their anger like oh yeah [51:24] it's on them and like oh yeah and by the [51:26] way the money that they're spend we're [51:28] sending to Israel the the money but this [51:31] is not about money to Israel when you [51:33] boycott outside a temple when right when [51:35] you protest outside a temple or boycott [51:37] a democratic member of Congress from [51:38] buying coffee at his coffee shop shop in [51:41] his own district has nothing to do with [51:43] your position on Israel. It's just [51:45] finding a great scapegoat like like [51:47] history and that's what's going on right [51:48] now. [51:49] >> So I want to stay on that. So Brett [51:51] mentioned Dara Horn before and she has [51:52] this excellent book out uh now and I was [51:55] just in Israel and I was meeting with [51:57] someone who made the point was [51:59] acknowledging that the book deserves the [52:01] universal acclaim that it is getting in [52:02] and explaining this moment. But this [52:04] this Israeli said to me, he says, "But [52:06] you know, Darra's book does an excellent [52:09] job of explaining why anti-semitism is [52:13] such a useful tool among politicians. [52:16] It's a it's a it's like a power play," [52:18] he said. But what her book doesn't [52:20] address is this like cultlike [52:25] following it seems to have right now. I [52:27] mean the the the the only the thing I [52:30] keep coming back to the event is that [52:31] ridiculous that Venice Film Festival [52:33] where they where they premiered that [52:34] film Naza where there was a 26 minute [52:38] standing ovation. I know you guys got a [52:40] big applause when you came in and it [52:42] seemed like wholesome and it was sort of [52:44] overlap with breaths. So maybe add a few [52:46] we were talking about like maybe 70 [52:47] seconds. 26 minutes is like a really [52:50] long time. And it was almost like this [52:53] Soviet and and you could imagine being [52:55] in that room where they were applauding [52:57] for 26 minutes which means nobody [53:01] people were afraid to stop clapping [53:02] because they're like looking around [53:03] saying well he hasn't stop she hasn't [53:05] stop I got to keep clapping be and there [53:07] was like this social pressure that was [53:09] almost cultlike. So coming to back to [53:12] your point, do you think the Jews and [53:16] the and the obsession with the Jews is [53:18] actually a way to make some of these [53:21] otherwise probably unattractive [53:24] socialist ideas attractive? I mean it's [53:28] hard to understand the mentality from [53:31] from politen from political people in [53:34] politics as you know there are just [53:37] issues that work. So when you find an [53:41] easy issue, and keep in mind, most of [53:43] our colleagues in Congress, this isn't a [53:46] big issue for them back home. Either [53:47] they don't represent a lot of Jewish [53:49] people or, you know, they're focused on [53:51] other things. This is not their big [53:52] issue. And they were getting protested [53:54] all over the place. People chasing them [53:56] around, yelling at them, and and they [53:58] would go home, get screamed at in the [53:59] halls of the capital. We get screamed [54:00] at. And all you had to do is say this [54:03] magic word, and it would all go away. [54:05] And you'd say, and all you say is [54:07] genocide. And then the thing goes and [54:09] then oh what they stopped protesting me [54:10] this is great and like I I of course you [54:13] know care but this is not my issue [54:15] that's your issue right and so that's I [54:17] think how this thing started and then [54:19] the disinformation gets out there and of [54:22] course it's everywhere the [54:23] disinformation and they have protests [54:24] and rallies by these groups who are [54:27] talking about the economic issues but [54:28] melding them with the Israel stuff and [54:30] the Jewish stuff which all gets mixed [54:32] together. I'm not a big believer that [54:33] you could separate these things out. [54:35] these things all get melded together. [54:37] And so I I I believe that's what's [54:39] really going on. It just becomes a [54:41] throwaway issue. You You're kind of nuts [54:44] right now in Democratic politics to run [54:46] around and talk about this stuff in the [54:48] way that we do. It's not popular, right? [54:50] You get harassed for it. All [54:53] >> it's all like you you like you lose [54:55] people cancel fundraisers. People like [54:57] you should see what's going on. And so [54:59] people who were there all the time are [55:02] now just saying, "Hey Josh, I'll be [55:04] there with you, but in the end on the [55:06] vote, but but please don't make me stick [55:07] my head up above the parapet. Just let [55:09] let me just hide away in the corner." [55:11] Hillary hasn't hidden for a second. But [55:13] major blowback for not hiding. No, for [55:15] not hiding. It takes a certain courage [55:17] to do that. And I'll just tell you, Dan, [55:19] like right now in the Democratic party, [55:21] and by the way, growing in the [55:23] Republican party. I agree. [55:25] >> Right. you you have a this is a a [55:29] negative a net very negative issue and [55:32] and you know to do this of course is a [55:36] risky move. [55:37] >> I want to piggyback on that briefly to [55:40] say [55:42] Josh is 100% right. I I mean there we we [55:45] are getting attacked left and right. It [55:47] is a very hostile moment. Josh actually [55:48] gave me the the the phrase, you know, [55:50] these are some of the toughest political [55:53] issues that you could take, but these [55:55] are not tough moral issues to take. And [55:58] I think that we need more elected [56:01] officials that are willing to lead not [56:04] from a position of fear, but from a [56:06] position of strength based on their [56:08] values and strong moral courage. That's [56:10] what the American people want. And and [56:12] it's so important to lead in that [56:14] moment. And I also think though it is a [56:18] vocal minority and a rabid minority and [56:21] I think they're they're causing you know [56:23] a lot of other people in the center who [56:25] don't necessarily know what to think [56:27] about this to sort of stay silent. It's [56:29] important to remember that sympathy [56:32] towards the socialist position is still [56:34] a minority position even within the [56:36] Democratic party. Again, you know, Josh [56:38] called me this summer apopleleic. Do you [56:40] remember this? I'm going to tell a funny [56:41] story. I've told some of you in this [56:42] room. was like, "I can't believe this [56:44] new poll that just came out. I I just I [56:46] can't believe this. A third A third of [56:48] the Democratic Party now says that [56:50] they're okay with socialism." You were [56:52] freaking out. And I was just calm. I was [56:54] like, "Do you know what that means, [56:55] Joshua? [56:56] Twothirds are not. Twothirds are not. [56:59] So, let's remember the majority in this [57:01] party and not be afraid to speak up for [57:03] them." So, [57:04] >> see, she's she's way too optimistic to [57:06] be Jewish, you know? It's like really [57:09] it's really this whole glass half full [57:11] thing. It's like not how we It's not how [57:13] we roll. [57:14] >> That's very fun. Exactly. Right. But but [57:17] here's the part that's tough, I think, [57:19] for us to understand. We've talked about [57:20] this a lot. When Assan is on a [57:23] tear, right? Either anti-American, which [57:26] he this is anti-American, not just [57:28] anti-Semitic, on a tear. And you would [57:31] think how hard would it be to condemn [57:34] somebody who who made the comments that [57:36] he has made about Jews, about our [57:39] country, blaming uh 9/11 on America, [57:42] calling Jews pig dogs. You would think [57:45] that should be so easy. Yet our [57:46] colleagues are silent. You would have [57:48] thought this summer that when uh Dan [57:51] Goldman, who's a member of Congress in [57:53] New York City, the suburb, he goes to a [57:55] coffee shop to buy coffee with his [57:57] daughter, and they re refund his money [57:59] and say, "We don't serve your kind [58:01] here." Two members of Congress said any [58:05] said anything, any statement. Imagine if [58:08] that had been Rashida Talib being [58:10] refused to serve refuse coffee. What [58:12] would have happened? There would have [58:14] been resolutions in Congress. there [58:16] would have been massive condemnation, [58:18] right? Nobody said a thing. And I'm [58:21] looking around saying, "Is anyone going [58:22] to talk out?" No, because why? To the [58:24] point it takes moral courage and it's [58:27] politically risky and too many people [58:29] take the easy way out. And that's the [58:31] moment, you know, that we're in right [58:32] now and what makes this so difficult. [58:34] >> So, Hillary, I got a lot of questions. [58:36] We we submit we asked people to submit [58:38] questions and I used some of those [58:40] questions, you know, to to kind of [58:42] synthesize a lot of the conversation [58:44] tonight, both with you and um and Brett. [58:46] And what one of the questions I got, and [58:49] I'm going to paraphrase [58:51] um was something along the lines of when [58:53] you're with your colleagues in Congress, [58:56] what do you wish they understood? [58:59] Like cuz Josh really described the scene [59:01] where they're like, "Look, I don't deal [59:03] with it in my district. It's not a big [59:04] deal. Why do I have to like just make [59:06] this thing go away? You know what I [59:07] mean? I can't I just check the genocide [59:09] box and everyone will leave me alone. [59:11] And you are you, as Josh said, you're [59:14] not Jewish. Uh, as we know from your [59:17] incredible optimism and uh and yet [59:20] you've you've you've really, you know, [59:23] staked, I think, very courageous ground [59:25] here. And when you're dealing with your [59:28] colleagues and they're saying, "Are you [59:29] crazy? Like what why are you doing [59:31] this?" including what you're doing right [59:32] now like this fall in Michigan. They're [59:34] like, "Are you crazy? What do you wish [59:36] they understood that they don't?" [59:39] >> I'm not a radical. In fact, I am [59:41] radically not radical. A and it it it [59:44] almost seems like in in today's politics [59:49] to to be not radical is almost a radical [59:54] position, right? Everyone is trying to [59:56] pull you farther and farther to the [59:57] extremes. Uh but it is actually a a very [60:02] uh bold and noble position to to stake [60:05] out this position in the center to to [60:08] see your party going in the wrong [60:10] direction and say I don't think we want [60:12] to go there. And you we get we get push [60:15] back from the extremes uh in our party, [60:18] the far-left, right, for being too [60:20] moderate, right? You're not strong [60:22] enough is a lot of the the words that [60:25] people might use to describe you. And [60:27] that it's it's actually it takes a a lot [60:30] of courage and a lot of strength to [60:32] stake out these positions in the middle. [60:35] And I just I wish that there was more [60:37] respect across the board for our [60:40] colleague from our colleagues to say, [60:42] you know what, I was elected to serve my [60:44] constituents with the values that I [60:46] bring to this position. Um and and more [60:49] intellectual curiosity instead of just [60:52] an immediate rejection or or retribution [60:54] of the the position that we have taken [60:56] out. [60:56] >> I I just do I want to push back on one [60:58] thing, right? Not all Jews are negative. [61:00] You know, there's this great line about [61:02] the definition of a Jewish optimist [61:04] where where a Jew says things could not [61:08] get any worse and the Jewish optimist [61:12] says yes they can. [61:15] To that point and and since Brett I [61:18] think quoted Clinton who I just worked [61:20] for like I I believe tomorrow is better [61:22] than today. So I I think it's better and [61:24] I so the worst thing you could do is [61:26] walk out of here going like it's over. [61:28] Just the opposite. I I I believe the [61:31] best thing we could do is actually know [61:32] who our friends are and who our friends [61:34] aren't, which we've learned. I think [61:36] it's a very important thing. The second [61:37] thing is I believe as a people we are [61:39] closer to to each other than ever [61:41] before, right? We know we got to look [61:42] out for each other and that only we can [61:45] overcome this by working together. We [61:46] got to stay focused. They spent a long [61:48] time, decades, like focused on how [61:51] they're going to tear it apart and and [61:54] between foreign money on college [61:55] campuses and K12, you name it. So, we [61:58] understand that. And we were a little [61:59] sleep at the switch, I think. But now [62:01] we're up and we're focused and we need [62:05] we know what we need to do to actually [62:07] overcome it, but overcoming socialism [62:09] and overcoming anti-semitism. So I I [62:11] would say we can do this if we stick [62:13] together, focus, and fight. And Hillary [62:15] and I, believe me, are are not going [62:17] quietly like they're going to come at [62:19] us, the socialists. And by the way, [62:21] we're coming at them. [62:23] So, [62:26] so Josh, actually I want to ask you [62:27] about before we wrap because you lead [62:29] this common sense problem solvers [62:32] caucus. So maybe folks don't know what [62:34] that is. Just 30 seconds on what that is [62:36] and then my real question is are the [62:39] ranks growing or are they shrinking? The [62:42] Palms Caucus is a bipartisan group of [62:44] about 30 and 30 and we actually do the [62:46] craziest thing. We actually work [62:48] together and try to get things done and [62:51] we've got a lot of stuff done. Josh is [62:52] being modest. He started it. [62:57] >> The the ranks potentially could grow [63:00] depending upon what happens in this [63:01] election. There's going to be more [63:03] reasonable common sense people like [63:05] Hillary than there are going to be [63:07] extremists. They're just loud and [63:09] they're very good. And by the way, our [63:11] enemies want to get on and they [63:13] overwhelm you on social media, right? [63:15] More people should listen to Dan's [63:16] podcast and some of the other crazy [63:18] podcasts. But why don't they? because [63:20] the the the crazies are better at [63:22] marketing, right? They're just they get [63:24] picked up more because they say crazy [63:25] things and you're too rational and [63:27] reasonable. So, it doesn't do as well, [63:29] right? And that's just how it is in this [63:30] world. But I believe the good news is we [63:34] have a lot of really rational, great [63:35] people coming like Jeremy and people who [63:37] actually want to get stuff done. [63:40] I um Brett Brett alluded to mention that [63:45] I I landed this morning at at 4:15 a.m. [63:47] from Israel. So, the real reason for my [63:50] trip to Israel is my niece got married [63:52] on Thursday night. And um she's the [63:56] youngest daughter of my sister who who [63:58] uh made aliyah. And I will say being at [64:01] that wedding [64:03] uh which was in which was in uh an area [64:06] right overlooking like in the Judean [64:08] desert, like it was outdoors overlooking [64:09] the Judeian Hills. and you're with this [64:12] young couple and the her now husband [64:18] uh served hundreds of days in reserve [64:21] duty was called up in Gaza and Lebanon [64:24] and seeing these young Israelis who were [64:27] there from his unit uh who had served [64:30] with him and there they were celebrating [64:34] and celebrating the start of a new [64:35] family and truly loving life and you're [64:38] sitting there like I said like in the [64:39] Judean Hills where like the Jews [64:40] actually came into the land of Israel. [64:43] And the wedding was on October 8th. So, [64:46] it was the day after the 3-year [64:48] anniversary of October 7th. And you can [64:50] say whatever you want about the policies [64:52] of Israel or, you know, but you watch [64:54] these young people, many of whom were in [64:56] uniform. And they are they they are good [65:00] people. They are not complicit of in [65:03] genocide. It's so preposterous. They [65:05] just want a normal, you know, vital and [65:08] vibrant life. And a conversation that [65:11] came up over and over and over on this [65:13] trip, I'm not I'm this is it's bizarre [65:15] to me on this trip when I talk to [65:17] Israelis is they're all asking about [65:20] Mamani. These Israelis are like obsessed [65:22] with Mam Dani and they're saying to me [65:24] and saying to other Americans, "How you [65:26] holding up over there?" Like, and and [65:29] I'm sitting there looking at these [65:30] Israelis who've been fighting the [65:31] Sevenfront War and I'm like, "We're [65:34] gonna be okay." you know, and um and [65:37] they're like they're looking at me [65:39] saying, "You sure?" Like we're they're [65:41] saying, "We're going to be okay, but [65:42] we're really worried because we're [65:44] seeing all this crazy stuff going on in [65:46] your country." And what I really want to [65:47] say to them is you need to focus less on [65:51] Mam Donnie, although it's important. [65:52] It's good that you're aware of who Mam [65:53] Donnie is. And you need to know that [65:55] there are people like Josh Godheimer and [65:57] Hillary Schultton who are absolutely as [66:00] worthy, if not more worthy of them [66:02] knowing. and and you are you are friends [66:06] of the Jewish people here and [66:08] everywhere. And I just want to thank you [66:10] both for being here. Thank you so much [66:11] for having us. [66:20] And whoa. Oh, thank you. Yeah, they're [66:22] giving you the standing ovation. We're [66:24] going to count 26 minutes here. We'll [66:26] see if we can get to 26 minutes. [66:37] Ark Media is funded in large part by our [66:40] ARK Plus members. They allow us to cover [66:42] Israel and the Jewish world honestly [66:45] without compromise. When you join ARK [66:47] Plus, you support our mission and get [66:49] access to exclusive content as well as [66:51] adfree listening across all ARK media [66:54] podcasts. Join us at arcdia.org. [66:57] And to our members, thank you. If Call [67:01] Me Back is where you come for honest [67:03] conversations about Israel and the [67:05] Jewish world, please hit subscribe and [67:07] also share it with a friend. And if you [67:09] missed our last episode, it's worth [67:11] going back for. See you next time.
